X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f X-Sender: cobb@pop.fas.harvard.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Mon, 01 Apr 2002 10:22:12 -0500 To: maphist@geog.uu.nl From: David Cobb Subject: Re: [MapHist] Historic Boston GIS site Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 Phil - I've tried to look at your site, downloaded the browser, but nothing works! What am I, and others (I've heard from others that they can't get it to work either) doing wrong? David At 06:00 PM 3/27/02 GMT, you wrote: >Boston GIS and Historical Maps from the David Rumsey Collection > >David Rumsey Collection announces the addition of 18 historical maps of the Boston area from 1776 through 1897 for viewing in its GIS Browser -- available online at www.davidrumsey.com. The GIS Browser allows integration and interaction of historical maps with current geospatial data and other historical maps. Additional historic maps of U.S. cities will be added in the near future including Washington, New York, Los Angeles, Chicago, Denver, and Seattle. > >The current geospatial data that can be overlaid and compared to the historical maps includes roads, lakes, parks, state boundaries, digital orthophotos (aerial photography), topographic mapsheets, digital elevation models and satellite imagery. The GIS Browser is available in two versions on the site, a GIS Basic Browser for those new to GIS and a GIS Professional Browser for those familiar with GIS conventions. > > >Phil Hoehn, Librarian >David Rumsey Collection >San Francisco >philhoehn@juno.com >http://www.davidrumsey.com > >_______________________________________________________________ >MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography >hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. >The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of >the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of >Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for >the views of the author. >List Information: http://www.maphist.nl > *************************************************************************** David A. Cobb Tel. 617.495.2417 Harvard Map Collection FAX 617.496.0440 Harvard College Library Email: cobb@fas.harvard.edu Cambridge, MA 02138 HTTP://hcl.harvard.edu/maps ************************** VERITAS **************************************** _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f Date: Mon, 01 Apr 2002 15:38:24 -0500 From: Rand Burnette Organization: MacMurray College X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 (Macintosh; I; 68K) To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Subject: Re: [MapHist] Where did the name Morgania come from? Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 Dear Jay Lester, My guess would be that the name comes from George Morgan (see Max Savelle 1932 biography-George Morgan: Colony Builder) who was a partner in the Philadelphia trading firm of Baynton, Wharton and Morgan and was the representative in the Illinois Country in the 1760s. He married a daughter of one of his partners. He planned a settlement in Missouri (then under Spanish control) to be called New Madrid in the late 1780s. He was negotiating with the Spanish at the time. His home base was Philadelphia and he was the executor of Thomas Hutchins' (died 1789-Geographer of the United States) estate and a close friends since they had traveled down the Ohio River together in the early 1760s. My wife and I are working on a birography of Hutchins. Morgan papers are in various places including the Illinois State Historical Library, the Illinois Historical Survey a part of the University of Illinois Library (Urbana-Champaign), the Historical Society of Pennsylvania, etc. I could be wrong but my guess would be this was the area Morgan planned to settle and develop a colony. I hope the above information will be helpful. Sincerely, Rand Burnette Professor of History MacMurray College Jacksonville, IL 62650 Jay Lester wrote: > Hello, > > I recently saw the name Morgania (or something very similar) for the > region near present-day Missouri on a 1799 map of the United States. > Does anyone know more details about this name? > > Thanks, > > ===== > Jay Lester > Chapel Hill, NC > mapsguy@yahoo.com > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Greetings - send holiday greetings for Easter, Passover > http://greetings.yahoo.com/ > _______________________________________________________________ > MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography > hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. > The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of > the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of > Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for > the views of the author. > List Information: http://www.maphist.nl _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f X-Sender: jsk@pop.gamewood.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Mon, 01 Apr 2002 18:32:38 -0500 To: maphist@geog.uu.nl From: Joel Kovarsky Subject: [MapHist] Online French Bibiophilic Price Index (Auction Records) Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 The first French language online price index (from auction records) has been launched at: . They have plans to expand in the near future, acknowledging that not all auction lists appear, but they are working on it. There are links to auctions of specialty themes, including atlases. A limited English version is available, and prices are currently stated in French francs. Joel Kovarsky _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f From: ahudson@NYPL.ORG Subject: Re: [MapHist] pre-twentieth century women in mapping To: maphist@geog.uu.nl X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Release 5.0.4 June 8, 2000 Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2002 11:50:56 -0500 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on MHTMAIL02/MHT/Nypl(Release 5.0.8 |June 18, 2001) at 04/02/2002 11:51:28 AM Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 Thanks for the Fitz cite. I am sure we have her on the list, altho I am also sure we did not have the "overlabel" info, which is very helpful. Many thanks! Alice Alice C. Hudson Chief, Map Division The Humanities and Social Sciences Library The New York Public Library 5th Avenue & 42nd Street, Room 117 New York, NY 10018-2788 ahudson@nypl.org; 212-930-0589; fax 212-930-0027 http://nypl.org/research/chss/map/map.html _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f From: ahudson@NYPL.ORG Subject: Re: [MapHist] pre-twentieth century women in mapping To: maphist@geog.uu.nl X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Release 5.0.4 June 8, 2000 Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2002 12:16:26 -0500 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on MHTMAIL02/MHT/Nypl(Release 5.0.8 |June 18, 2001) at 04/02/2002 12:16:59 PM Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 Oh, sigh. Apologies to the list. Alice C. Hudson Chief, Map Division The Humanities and Social Sciences Library The New York Public Library 5th Avenue & 42nd Street, Room 117 New York, NY 10018-2788 ahudson@nypl.org; 212-930-0589; fax 212-930-0027 http://nypl.org/research/chss/map/map.html _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f From: "carljweber" To: Subject: [MapHist] Northwest Passage Place Names Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2002 13:21:24 -0600 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 02 Apr 2002 19:20:04.0515 (UTC) FILETIME=[6481DF30:01C1DA7B] Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 Hello, I'm just recently becoming familiar with MapHist. I've been doing place name research - North America east of Mississippi, 1500-1700, looking particularly at the St. Laurence, Great Lakes, Mississippi, and northern coast of the Gulf of Mexico. This work requires incorporating historical, linguistic, and cartographic information. The plentiful and widely representative map imagery on the Internet has given me an enthusiasm for the wonderful world of maps. Can anyone help me? (I have ordered the CD with MapHist archives - so pardon any redundancy in my query.) ? What has been said about the origin of certain words found on various maps in the decades before 1600? They are far up in the North American latitudes and evidently are part of the 'northwest passage' lore and legacy. They are exemplified on Cornelis de Jode, 1593. http://www.bnquebec.ca/cargeo/accueil.htm (Click chronology then year.) The words: (They are to the northwest of the St. Laurence: Chiogigua, Obilo (river), Cogib (river) Canaoga, Subilaga , Zubgara, Zuhaire, Lago de Conibas, Auacal. It seems there would be an interesting literature on this! Thanks for any help, Carl Carl Jeffrey Weber, Chicago _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f From: philhoehn@juno.com X-Original-From: philhoehn@juno.com Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2002 22:57:27 GMT To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Subject: [MapHist] Historic Boston GIS site X-Mailer: Juno Webmail Version 1.0 Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 David Cobb mentioned that he and some others were having problems with our GIS browser plug in loading properly. We have communicated with David and solved the problem through using the Java plugin install on our site page http://www.davidrumsey.com/GIS/boston.htm. He was able to get the GIS browser working fine in both Internet Explorer and Netscape 4.7 after installing the plugin from our link. We recommend using Internet Explorer initially, since it loads the plugin more efficiently than Netscape. But after the plugin is loaded, either browser will work fine. The only Netscape browser that will not work with our plugin in version 4.08, which does not support the new versions of Java that we are using. For Mac users, you must be using the new OSX, since version 9 and earlier does not support the new Java. Hope this helps. -- David Rumsey Phil Hoehn, Librarian David Rumsey Collection San Francisco philhoehn@juno.com http://www.davidrumsey.com _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f X-Sender: np01hd@mail.telepac.pt Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2002 02:52:57 +0000 To: maphist@geog.uu.nl From: "Alfredo P. Marques - CEMAR" Subject: [MapHist] Portuguese Nautical Atlas Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 0000,0000,FFFF#################################################################### Information provided by the Luis de Albuquerque Center for the Studies of the Sea - CEMAR, Figueira da Foz, Portugal. Message sent to several lists and individual addresses. Sorry for any cross postings. #################################################################### FORMAL PRESENTATION OF A SIXTEENTH-CENTURY PORTUGUESE UNIVERSAL ATLAS WHICH, DUE TO ITS GRAPHIC RIGOUR AND QUALITY, IS THE MOST UNIQUELY CARED-FOR EDITION TO HAVE EVER BEEN MADE OF A NAUTICAL ATLAS OF THE GREAT GEOGRAPHICAL DISCOVERIES ERA (AND THEREFORE WILL, FOR THE FUTURE, ESTABLISH A NEW INTERNATIONAL STANDARD WITH RESPECT TO THE GRAPHIC QUALITY OF THIS TYPE OF PUBLICATION IN BOOK FORM) There will be a public presentation, in Portugal, of the "quasi-original" facsimile edition of the beautiful Universal Atlas by Diogo Homem, of c.1564, kept in the National Library of Russia in S. Petersburg. It is now being published with the prestigious signet of Manuel Moleiro Editor, in Barcelona, the best international publishing house specialized in facsimile editions of the great works of the past. This public presentation will be on Friday, the 5th of April, 2002, at 20:00, at the main building of the Public Library in Oporto (Biblioteca Pública Municipal do Porto, Rua D. João IV, next to the S. Lázaro Gardens). On this occasion, a lecture will be given in Portuguese on "A Publicação do Atlas Universal de Diogo Homem [The Publication of the Universal Atlas by Diogo Homem]" by the historian Alfredo Pinheiro Marques, member of the teaching staff of the University of Coimbra, head of the Centro de Estudos do Mar Luís de Albuquerque (CEMAR) at Figueira da Foz, and author of a scientific study written especially for this edition now being published. The lecturer will be introduced by the Portuguese historian of cartography Joaquim Ferreira do Amaral. This edition of a Universal Atlas of the great Portuguese cartographer of the 16th century, because of its unsurpassable rigour and graphic quality, is the most uniquely cared-for which, until today, has ever been edited of a nautical atlas, in parchment, of the Great Geographical Discoveries epoch. A new international standard has been established for the future in relation to the graphic quality of this type of edition in book form. NOTE ON THE UNIVERSAL ATLAS OF DIOGO HOMEM, c.1564, IN THE NATIONAL LIBRARY OF RUSSIA (SAINT PETERSBURG) - PUBLISHED BY MANUEL MOLEIRO EDITOR, BARCELONA, 2002 Portuguese Nautical Cartography in the 16th century was very much admired, not only due to the newly acquired information relating to astronomical navigation (information which the Portuguese were then in the process of introducing into the hydrographical charts known as portolan-charts), but also due to the extraordinarily vast geographical area that the Portuguese charts and atlas embraced. It is understandable that this should be so, since the Portuguese, pioneers in the geographical discoveries from the beginning of the 15th century, were the only ones, from the start of the 16th, to be navigating simultaneously on the Atlantic and the Indian Oceans, to America and to China, to Brazil and to Japan, around Africa and East India - in fact, on all the seas in the world. The middle of the 16th century marks an era which corresponds distinctly to the moment at which the cycle of the most significant mutual geographical discoveries was consummated and at which our Planet became known to the Europeans such as it is basically today (with the exception of a few zones in the Pacific which are demographically less significant). It was not by chance that this decisive cycle of the History of the Geographical Discoveries corresponded to an important cycle of the History of Cartography. It was likewise not by chance that the influence of the Portuguese was essential in both of these Histories. The cartographical undertaking of Diogo Homem -- the most prolific of the Portuguese cartographers whose works have reached us -- constitutes the most emblematic example of the amplitude and exceptional value of the nautical cartography originated in 16th century Iberia. This beautiful Atlas drawn by Diogo Homem, circa 1564, and which is kept today in the National Library of Russia in S. Petersburg, will forever be considered as one of the most brilliant illustrations of such an exceptional value. This truly beautiful Universal Atlas -- one of the most aesthetically significant in the whole of the numerous productions of its author -- has been the object, to this day, of only a few brief notices and of a few photographical publications of limited resources (among which stands out the publication by Professor Armando Cortesão in 1960 in the work entitled Portugaliae Monumenta Cartographica). This specimen is now being published in a facsimile edition which may be considered as the definitive one, with the prestigious signet of Manuel Moleiro Editor, and with a presentation of the responsibility of Alfredo Pinheiro Marques (University of Coimbra, and Centro de Estudos do Mar, Portugal) and of Ludmila Kildushevskaya (National Library, Russia). In 1960, Armando Cortesão had studied and published the Universal Atlas of S. Petersburg in the outstanding collection which he carried out in association with Admiral Avelino Teixeira da Mota. However, due to the frugality of the photographical technology of that time (and due to the gigantic scale of the task of then publishing such a huge production in six volumes, with over a thousand and two hundred photographically reproduced charts), he found himself limited to the possibility of producing monocromatic plates of the S. Petersburg atlas, thereby suffering from their natural limitations. It is possible to do much better nowadays. Therefore, this great improvement has now been achieved in this edition of the marvellous cartographical work by Diogo Homem. It deserves being included in the number of publications produced by Manuel Moleiro Editor, the best there is in this specialized area, worthy of the concept they have invented and which they pride themselves in as "quasi-originals" (for their being editions that make the truth their job, not only in regard to their graphical likeness but also to all the other material aspects of the specimens, such as the thickness and texture of the parchment, its characteristic smell, the existing bindings, etc..). The images which are now being published most faithfully in the completeness of their design and colouring, will therefore be considered definitive, and will, for the future, be of an enormous advantage to the scientific community setting out to work on further studies of this exemplary cartographer, and even to the non-specialized public seeking only to enjoy intellectual and aesthetic delight in their contemplation. BIOGRAPHICAL NOTE ON ALFREDO PINHEIRO MARQUES, AUTHOR OF A STUDY INTRODUCING THE UNIVERSAL ATLAS Alfredo Pinheiro Marques, professor of History since 1982 at the University of Coimbra, and head of the Centro de Estudos do Mar Luís de Albuquerque (CEMAR) since 1995, was responsible for the "Presentation" and the "Addenda", in 1988, for the reedition of the six volumes of 'Portugaliae Monumenta Cartographica' by Professor Armando Cortesão and Admiral Avelino Teixeira da Mota (the monumental work published originally in 1960 and in which all the Portuguese maps of the era of the Geographical Discoveries, from the 15th to the 17th centuries, are studied and reproduced). Alfredo Pinheiro Marques is also the author of the most noteworthy books published on the History of Portuguese Cartography in the last fifteen years. Among these are included 'Origem e Desenvolvimento da Cartografia Portuguesa na Época dos Descobrimentos' (Lisbon: Imprensa Nacional-Casa da Moeda, 1988), 'L'Atlas Miller: un Problème Résolu. L'Art dans la Cartographie Portugaise' (Paris: Revue de la Bibliothèque National, 1994), 'Portuguese Cartography of Japan' (Lisbon: Imprensa Nacional-Casa da Moeda, 1996), etc.. Alfredo Pinheiro Marques' study of the famous "Atlas Miller" of the Bibliothèque Nationale of France (first presented at the 15th International Conference on the History of Cartography, held in 1993 at the Newberry Library in Chicago) revealed the authorship, by the painter António de Holanda, of the sumptuous artistic decoration of this Portuguese atlas of c.1519, always considered to be one of the most splendid of all cartographic specimens existing in the world. As the representative of a Portuguese delegation in Paris in 1988, Alfredo Pinheiro Marques guaranteed the coordination of the issue of the periodical 'Le Courrier de L'UNESCO' dedicated to the theme 'Camoëns et les Découvertes Portugaises' (April, 1989), and collaborated in the issue dedicated to the theme 'Cartes et Cartographes. Les Arpenteurs de la Terre' (issue of June 1991, coordinated by J. Brian Harley). Alfredo Pinheiro Marques was the first scientific coordinator of the Portuguese Commission to the Universal Exhibition in Seville 1992 (EXPO 92). Still in 1992, he was a member of the International Advisory Board to 'Maps and the Columbian Encounter', the programme of the Christopher Columbus Quincentennial Celebration organized at the University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, in the U. S. A.. From 1988 on, Alfredo Pinheiro Marques has been a member of the Work Group on Historical Cartography at the Instituto Panamericano de Geografia e História (IPGH), a specialized body of the Organization of American States (OAS). He was also a member of the Editorial Board to the journal 'The Map Collector', published in England to 1996. From 1987 to 1994, while representing his country in the former editions of that very same international scientific meeting, Alfredo Pinheiro Marques was responsible for the 17th International Conference on the History of Cartography being held in Portugal. This Conference took place in Lisbon, in 1997. Alfredo Pinheiro Marques is the author and coordinator of the 'International Bibliography of the Discoveries and Overseas Encounters', a database created and made available since 1992 by the University of Coimbra in Portugal to the international telecommunication networks (www.uc.pt/bd.apm), a database which has been considered as the largest and most complete international bibliography, in the Internet, on the scientific areas of Geographic Discoveries. In 1995, Alfredo Pinheiro Marques was responsible for the definitive solution to what Armando Cortesão had called "one of the greatest enigmas of History": the clearing up of the circumstances surrounding the making of the famous Fra Mauro map which was ordered by the Portuguese in the 15th century, produced c.1448-1459, and the magnificent copy of which is still kept in Venice, in its Biblioteca Nazionale Marciana, and which has always been considered as one of the most significant and impressive monuments of all time in the History of Cartography. This definitive solution was presented in Alfredo Pinheiro Marques' greatest book 'A Maldição da Memória do Infante Dom Pedro e as Origens dos Descobrimentos Portugueses' (Figueira da Foz: Centro de Estudos do Mar, 1995). Now, in 2002, Alfredo Pinheiro Marques signs his name to an introductory study to the edition of the Universal Atlas by Diogo Homem of the National Library of Russia in S. Petersburg. 0000,0000,FFFFCentro de Estudos do Mar ** ** * PORTUGAL ******** *** ** ******** ***** ** ************* * * * * ** ************ ************* **** ****************** * *** ** * ** ** ****************************** ** ** * **** ************************************************************* CEMAR-Centro de Estudos do Mar, Urb. Monfoz, Lote 15, 5º Esq. Buarcos, 3080-238 FIGUEIRA DA FOZ - PORTUGAL. Phone: (351) 233434450, Fax: (351) 233434450. alfmarq.cemar@mail.telepac.pt ************************************************************* Visit the Bibliography of the Discoveries at http://www.uc.pt/bd.apm 0000,0000,FFFF************************************************************* _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f X-Sender: np01hd@mail.telepac.pt Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2002 03:01:33 +0000 To: maphist@geog.uu.nl From: "Alfredo P. Marques - CEMAR" Subject: [MapHist] availability of portolan-charts facsimiles Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 6666,3333,0000Having been told that while I was absent from this discussion list (during the last months, since 14.12.2001) one of the issues on which there has been some discussion and demand of data has to do with details about the availability of Portuguese and other portolan-charts reproductions (such as the ones reproduced in facsimile in PORTUGALIAE MONUMENTA CARTOGRAPHICA), here I send the information that I can provide on the topic: QUESTION: AVAILABILITY OF PMC >> Dear Phil, >> >> Many thanks for you e-mail. I've used your ref list to learn a lot about >> portolan charts. My problem now is that I wish to purchase poster-size >> reproductions of some these charts, but have no idea how to go about this. >> I'd be grateful if you could recommend a retailer of such reproductions. >> >> Regards, >> Sharif >> >I am unaware of any poster-like reproductions of portolan charts. I would >also be very interested in finding some to frame for my office. > >I will keep your email. If I run across some portolan posters, I will >certainly let you know. I have many books on portolans, but no prints. > >My best regards, >Phil Stover >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Sharif Sakr" < >To: < >Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2001 9:03 AM >Subject: Re: Portuguese Portolans - please help > 6666,3333,0000TENTATIVE ANSWER: On PORTUGALIAE MONUMENTA CARTOGRAPHICA The first edition (1960-1961) was published by the Portuguese Prime-Minister's office (in the time of the dictator Salazar), and consisted of only c. 900 copies. They were all sent to libraries and institutions all over the world, as a gift from the Portuguese government. It is almost impossible to find any of these available in the book market (although, sometimes, it seems that one or two can indeed appear). The second edition (1987-1988), published in our times of democracy by the Imprensa Nacional-Casa da Moeda (National Press-State Mint), is the one now available. It has the same colour and the same black-and-white reproductions of portolan-charts as the first edition. The colour facsimiles measure 60 x 47 cm and are printed in separate sheets, so that people can eventually use them as framed prints. The reference is as follows: CORTESÃO, Armando; MOTA, A. Teixeira da, Portugaliae Monumenta Cartographica, 6 vol., Lisbon, 1960 (facsim. reed. with an introduction and supplement by Alfredo Pinheiro Marques, 7 vol., Lisbon, Imprensa Nacional-Casa da Moeda, 1987 [1988]). The address of the publisher is: Imprensa Nacional - Casa da Moeda Rua Dom Francisco Manuel de Melo, 5 1070 LISBOA PORTUGAL phone (351) 213835800 fax (351) 213835803 Another address is: Imprensa Nacional - Casa da Moeda Avenida Fernão de Magalhães, 486 3000 COIMBRA PORTUGAL phone (351) 239826902 fax (351) 239832630 NOTE: As the scientific editor of the 1988 reedition and responsible for its Addenda I was paid for my texts at the time of the launching, and nowadays I do not have any links or commercial interests in the Imprensa Nacional-Casa da Moeda as a publisher, not even in relation with my several books published in the past by that publishing house (most of these books of mine are nowadays out of print, but they insist on not to reprint themŠ since I became an "accursed author"Š). Nowadays I do not have close relations with that past publisher of mineŠ I am giving these informations only for scientific and bibliographic purposes, since they have been asked for. They don't imply any commercial purpose. One can find other good bookshops in Portugal at the following addresses: Livraria Portugal Rua do Carmo, 70 1200 LISBOA Livraria Sá da Costa Rua Garrett, 100 1200 LISBOA Livraria Bertrand Rua Garrett, 73 1200 LISBOA Livraria Buchholz Rua Duque de Palmela, 4 1250 LISBOA Livraria Leitura Rua de Ceuta, 88 4000 PORTO Livraria Minerva Rua de Macau, 52 3030-059 COIMBRA Besides the PMC facsimiles, THERE ARE OTHER PORTUGUESE PORTOLAN-CHARTS AND NAUTICAL ATLASES WHICH HAVE BEEN PUBLISHED. Maybe the best example is the one now being published (being launched this week...), since it is the best facsimile ever to be published (in what concerns its graphic and material aspects). As has been said in a previous message sent to MapHist, the images in the Diogo Homem Atlas published by Manuel Moleiro Editor are extremely faithful in the completeness of their design and coloring, and will therefore be considered definitive. The reference is: Atlas Universal - Diogo Homem, edited by Ludmila Kildushevskaya and Alfredo Pinheiro Marques, Barcelona: M.Moleiro, 2002. Hope this information can be useful. With best wishes 6666,3333,0000Alfredo Pinheiro Marques0000,0000,FFFF ** ** * Centro de Estudos do Mar ******** *** PORTUGAL ** ******** ***** ** ************* * * * * ** ************ ************* **** ****************** * *** ** * ** ** ****************************** ** ** * **** ************************************************************* CEMAR-Centro de Estudos do Mar, Urb. Monfoz, Lote 15, 5º Esq. Buarcos, 3080-238 FIGUEIRA DA FOZ - PORTUGAL. Phone: (351) 233434450, Fax: (351) 233434450. alfmarq.cemar@mail.telepac.pt ************************************************************* 6666,3333,0000Alfredo Pinheiro Marques, Faculdade de Letras, Universidade de Coimbra, 3000-447 COIMBRA - PORTUGAL0000,0000,FFFF. 6666,3333,0000Phone: (351) 2394109900, Fax: (351) 2398367330000,0000,FFFF. 6666,3333,0000alfmarq@ci.uc.pt, Phone Home: (351) 233433258. Visit the Bibliography of the Discoveries at http://www.uc.pt/bd.apm http://alf.ci.uc.pt/fluc/docent/currdoc/alfmarq.htm 6666,3333,0000************************************************ DESIR ****** _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f X-Sender: np01hd@mail.telepac.pt Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2002 03:01:52 +0000 To: maphist@geog.uu.nl From: "Alfredo P. Marques - CEMAR" Subject: [MapHist] copyright and images of the Fra Mauro Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 6666,3333,0000Having been told that while I was absent from this discussion list (during the last months, since 14.12.2001) one of the issues on which there has been some discussion and demand of data has to do with the existence of reproductions made out of the Fra Mauro map, here I send my contribution. QUESTION: COPYRIGHT AND IMAGES OF THE FRA MAURO MAP >How was executed the reproduction of Fra Mauro map sold by >ArtExpression.com? I don't know, beacause I didn't see it. Which is the >out-of.copyright publication containing a LARGE AND DETAILED reproduction >of this map? As far as I know, It doesn't exists (the Italian facsimile >edition of 1956 is in 45 leaves). >Thus, I shall presume that the map was printed from a good quality >transparency NOT RELEASED BY THE MARCIANA LIBRARY. That's the reason why >the title of my first message was "copyright violation". >If we had received from the publisher/printer of the map a request of >permission to publish this document - which is unique, being a manuscript >map - we wouldn't discuss, now, of "copyright volation". > >Piero > >-----Messaggio originale----- >Da: James Enterline [SMTP:jenterli@concentric.net] >Inviato: mercoledi 28 marzo 2001 17.21 >A: maphist@camail1.harvard.edu >Oggetto: Re: R: Copyright violation > >I understand what you're saying, Piero, but I think you have to sharpen >your focus on legal matters. Before Italy passed its legislation in the >early 1990's, there was nothing to prevent Americans or Japanese (or anyone >else) from making copies of your holdings from out-of-copyright >publications like the 1889 Nordenskiold. Then along comes Italy and >unilaterally passes something to make that illegal. How can Italy expect >to legislate for the rest of the world? It seems to me that it's not a >matter of being very difficult or expensive to prosecute, but absolutely >impossible. Unless I'm missing something, the situation seems so >outrageous that it must involve some kind of misunderstanding >somewhere. Can you clarify this? > > All best, Jim. > >At 08:44 AM 03/28/01 +0200, you wrote: > > >>-----Messaggio originale----- >>Da: James Enterline [SMTP:jenterli@concentric.net] >>Inviato: martedi 27 marzo 2001 23.08 >>A: maphist@camail1.harvard.edu >>Oggetto: Re: Copyright violation >> >>How would anything like that be enforced >>outside Italy, Piero? >> >> All best, Jim. >> >>In this case, it would be very difficult and expensive to prosecute an >>American or Japanese publisher who didn't respect the Italian law on the >>rights of reproduction. That's the reason why I posted my first message. >> >>Piero 6666,3333,0000TENTATIVE ANSWER: There is indeed one LARGE AND DETAILED reproduction of the Fra Mauro map (as big as the original): the one I have constructed myself, with the help of my wife (and we had lots of fun doing it...), in 1994, to be used for my speech "A Origem do "Plano da Índia": o Mapa Veneziano do Infante Dom Pedro [The Origin of the Plan of India: Prince Peter's Venetian Map" (speech made in 09.12.1994, at the Casa Municipal da Cultura de Coimbra [Coimbra Municipal Hall of Culture]). This was followed by the publication of that text as chapter 4 ("A Origem do Plano da Índia: o Mapa Veneziano do Infante Dom Pedro" [The Origins of the "Plan of India": Prince Peter's Venitian Map]) of my book A Maldição da Memória do Infante Dom Pedro e as Origens dos Descobrimentos Portugueses [The Accursed Heritage of Prince Peter and the Origins of the Portuguese Discoveries] (Figueira da Foz, 1995). We built that facsimile, in dimensions very close to the original, using images from the forty eight leaves of the 1956 Italian edition (reference LEPORACE, Tullia Gasparrini; ALMAGIÀ, Roberto, ed., Il Mappamondo di Fra Mauro, Roma: Istituto Poligrafico dello Stato, 1956), which we superimposed one to each other... and then glued, with lots of patience (and fun) ... Of course that, at that time, the building and the use of such a reproduction had not any commercial purpose (and that will continue for the future). This big wall map reproduction belongs today to the Luis de Albuquerque Center for the Studies of the Sea, the historical society devoted to the Maritime History of Portugal and the Maritime History of Prince Peter's region of Coimbra. We use it for exhibitions and other scientific purposes. 6666,3333,0000Alfredo Pinheiro Marques0000,0000,FFFF ** ** * Centro de Estudos do Mar ******** *** PORTUGAL ** ******** ***** ** ************* * * * * ** ************ ************* **** ****************** * *** ** * ** ** ****************************** ** ** * **** ************************************************************* CEMAR-Centro de Estudos do Mar, Urb. Monfoz, Lote 15, 5º Esq. Buarcos, 3080-238 FIGUEIRA DA FOZ - PORTUGAL. Phone: (351) 233434450, Fax: (351) 233434450. alfmarq.cemar@mail.telepac.pt ************************************************************* 6666,3333,0000Alfredo Pinheiro Marques, Faculdade de Letras, Universidade de Coimbra, 3000-447 COIMBRA - PORTUGAL0000,0000,FFFF. 6666,3333,0000Phone: (351) 2394109900, Fax: (351) 2398367330000,0000,FFFF. 6666,3333,0000alfmarq@ci.uc.pt, Phone Home: (351) 233433258. Visit the Bibliography of the Discoveries at http://www.uc.pt/bd.apm http://alf.ci.uc.pt/fluc/docent/currdoc/alfmarq.htm 6666,3333,0000************************************************ DESIR ****** _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f X-Sender: np01hd@mail.telepac.pt Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2002 03:02:24 +0000 To: maphist@geog.uu.nl From: "Alfredo P. Marques - CEMAR" Subject: [MapHist] Mr. Menzie's theory and RGS lecture Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 6666,3333,0000I was informed that while I was absent from this discussion list (during the last months, since 14.12.2001) one of the issues on which there has been some discussion and demand of data has to do with the RGS lecture on Zeng Ho's Chinese alleged navigations to the Atlantic via the cape of Good Hope (and alleged Chinese geographical information which would supposedly be transmited from Venice to Portugal by Prince Peter of Coimbra, and therefore entered the Portuguese maps and was later taken into account by the Portuguese when they made their navigations to the cape of Good Hope and to the West Atlantic). What I can say on the issue of Mr. Menzie's theory and his lecture at the Royal Geographical Society is what follows. I don't have any information or any contact with Mr. Menzies, whose book, as far as I was told, has not yet been published (and therefore it seems that nobody knows for sure to what extent that book has to do with facts contained in my theory about the origins of the Portuguese Discoveries and the 'Plan of India" in Prince Peter's map of Fra Mauro and other Venetian geographical information). Of course I was not at the RGS lecture, since I live very far from London, in my little town called Figueira da Foz, a Portuguese seaside town near Coimbra. The first information I had on that lecture came from a telephone call received here in my house at the Portuguese seaside town. It was made by a London newspaper. The journalist said they wanted to have a statement from me, since my name had been suggested for that purpose by someone in the RGS. The only thing that I could say to them is what I am saying here and now: as far as it seems, nobody knows anything yet about the true background of that theory and about the extent of Mr. Menzies' conclusions and proofs. I must therefore abstain from commenting what I don't know yet. The only thing that I must state is that, as everybody knows (and my books and articles show for many years now, dealing with Columbus, the mythical Prince Henry, etc.), I always try to be close to the facts, and refuse sensationalisms and unproven claims. I always try to work on the light of strict criticism (even if that implies facing and fighting against long accepted doctrines which have turned to 'official truths', but which are in fact unproven chauvinistic claims, and long accepted sensationalisms...). I don't know enough on Mr. Menzies' theory. Speaking about Venetian geographical information which came to Portugal, I don't even know if the autor -- a serious historian, or an amateur sensationalist...? -- is quoting from my Prince Peter theory (published in the book 'A Maldição da Memoria...'), or if he is ignoring it, or if he is copying it, or if he is refuting it... I will therefore wait and see. And in relation with the core of Mr. Menzies' theory, of course I will wait for some real evidence and real proofs. Which Chinese informations? Which Chinese maps? Which Chinese archaeological remains in the Atlantic? Which connections of Prince Peter or other Portuguese figure with 'Venitian-Chinese' knowledge? Which Portuguese portolan-charts connected to Chinese information and maps? Are there any proofs of that connection? These are the interrogations that must have an answer. Waiting for any developments of this issue, I hope that any future debates on this will be civilized and enriching. 6666,3333,0000Alfredo Pinheiro Marques0000,0000,FFFF ** ** * Centro de Estudos do Mar ******** *** PORTUGAL ** ******** ***** ** ************* * * * * ** ************ ************* **** ****************** * *** ** * ** ** ****************************** ** ** * **** ************************************************************* CEMAR-Centro de Estudos do Mar, Urb. Monfoz, Lote 15, 5º Esq. Buarcos, 3080-238 FIGUEIRA DA FOZ - PORTUGAL. Phone: (351) 233434450, Fax: (351) 233434450. alfmarq.cemar@mail.telepac.pt ************************************************************* 6666,3333,0000Alfredo Pinheiro Marques, Faculdade de Letras, Universidade de Coimbra, 3000-447 COIMBRA - PORTUGAL0000,0000,FFFF. 6666,3333,0000Phone: (351) 2394109900, Fax: (351) 2398367330000,0000,FFFF. 6666,3333,0000alfmarq@ci.uc.pt, Phone Home: (351) 233433258. Visit the Bibliography of the Discoveries at http://www.uc.pt/bd.apm http://alf.ci.uc.pt/fluc/docent/currdoc/alfmarq.htm 6666,3333,0000************************************************ DESIR ****** _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f X-Sender: np01hd@mail.telepac.pt Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2002 03:02:39 +0000 To: maphist@geog.uu.nl From: "Alfredo P. Marques - CEMAR" Subject: [MapHist] Cartography of Japan Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 6666,3333,0000I was informed that while I was absent from this discussion list (during the last months, since 14.12.2001) one of the issues on which there has been some discussion and demand of data has to do with QUESTION: CARTOGRAPHY OF JAPAN >I'm an Italian student of Florence University and I'm >looking for every kind of information about the >history of Japanese cartography (titles of books, >web-sites, journals...). > >Could anyone help me? > >shishy10@yahoo.it > 6666,3333,0000TENTATIVE ANSWER: Quoting from a previous message which I had sent some years ago to MapHist, here I send the information that I can provide on the topic of Portuguese cartography of Japan, namely a general bibliographical list on the matter and the details about my book, prepared in 1993 and finally published in 1996, with the survey of all Portuguese maps of Japan produced during the 16th-17th centuries (with texts in English and Portuguese, and color reproductions of all the specimens). The book's reference is as follows: MARQUES, Alfredo Pinheiro, A Cartografia Portuguesa do Japão (Séculos XVI-XVII). Catálogo das Cartas Portuguesas - Portuguese Cartography of Japan (16th-17th Centuries). A Catalogue of Portuguese Charts, Lisbon: Imprensa Nacional-Casa da Moeda, 1996. ISBN 972-27-0815-5. Possibly this book of mine has not yet run out of print (though it was beautifully produced, and therefore it sold in great numbers when it was launched in 1996). Some copies are probably still available at the Imprensa Nacional-Casa da Moeda (National Press-State Mint) shops. I don't really know, because nowadays, being an "accursed author" in Portugal, I don't have any close relations with that past publisher of mineŠ The truth is that they only published that large book because it was being prepared, at great expense, since 1993Š and in the end of keeping it in their drawer for several years, in 1996 they decided at last to launch itŠ so that the costs would not be completely lostŠ (and as a way of making some show-off... to try to convince people that I am not being persecuted in Portugal, since I demolished Prince Henry's mythsŠ). The address of the publisher is: Imprensa Nacional - Casa da Moeda Rua Dom Francisco Manuel de Melo, 5 1070 LISBOA PORTUGAL phone (351) 213835800 fax (3519 213835803 Another address is: Imprensa Nacional - Casa da Moeda Avenida Fernão de Magalhães, 486 3000 COIMBRA PORTUGAL phone (351) 239826902 fax (3519 239832630 NOTE: Once again I must state that I do not have any commercial interest in providing information about these books of mine published by Imprensa Nacional-Casa da Moeda. As the author of this particular book on the Portuguese Cartography of Japan I was paid at the time of the lauching; in the terms of the contract I do not receive any further payment, and nowadays I don't even have close relations with that past publisher of mineŠ I am giving these informations only for scientific and bibliographic purposes. They do not imply any commercial purpose. With best wishes for any possible research on this 6666,3333,0000Alfredo Pinheiro Marques0000,0000,FFFF ** ** * Centro de Estudos do Mar ******** *** PORTUGAL ** ******** ***** ** ************* * * * * ** ************ ************* **** ****************** * *** ** * ** ** ****************************** ** ** * **** ************************************************************* CEMAR-Centro de Estudos do Mar, Urb. Monfoz, Lote 15, 5º Esq. Buarcos, 3080-238 FIGUEIRA DA FOZ - PORTUGAL. Phone: (351) 233434450, Fax: (351) 233434450. alfmarq.cemar@mail.telepac.pt ************************************************************* 6666,3333,0000Alfredo Pinheiro Marques, Faculdade de Letras, Universidade de Coimbra, 3000-447 COIMBRA - PORTUGAL0000,0000,FFFF. 6666,3333,0000Phone: (351) 2394109900, Fax: (351) 2398367330000,0000,FFFF. 6666,3333,0000alfmarq@ci.uc.pt, Phone Home: (351) 233433258. Visit the Bibliography of the Discoveries at http://www.uc.pt/bd.apm http://alf.ci.uc.pt/fluc/docent/currdoc/alfmarq.htm 6666,3333,0000************************************************ DESIR ****** _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f From: "Gowrie Galleries" To: Subject: Re: [MapHist] copyright and images of the Fra Mauro Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2002 13:09:23 +1000 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714
Alfredo,
 
I also didn't see the ArtExpression facsimile in question, however in my last exhibition in 2000 and illustrated in the accompanying catalogue (entry 7), I displayed an 1854 facsimile of the Fra Mauro world map. It measured 2030 x 1980 mm and was printed on six sheets.
 
It appeared in De Santarem's folio facsimile Atlas of early maps Paris 1854. A legend states in French that the map is here published for the first time, the same size as the original by La Vicomte de Santarem.
 
I credited your article on the Fra Mauro, published in 'The Globe' in 1999.
 
Simon
maps@sydney.net
Gowrie Galleries
316 Oxford Street
Woollahra  2025  NSW
Australia
ph: (61 2) 9387 4581
fax: (61 2) 9389 0640
www.gowrie-galleries.com.au
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, April 03, 2002 1:01 PM
Subject: [MapHist] copyright and images of the Fra Mauro


Having been told that while I was absent from this discussion list (during the last months, since 14.12.2001) one of the issues on which there has been some discussion and demand of data has to do with the existence of reproductions made out of the Fra Mauro map, here I send my contribution.

QUESTION: COPYRIGHT AND IMAGES OF THE FRA MAURO MAP

>How was executed the reproduction of Fra Mauro map sold by
>ArtExpression.com? I don't know, beacause I didn't see it. Which is the
>out-of.copyright publication containing a LARGE AND DETAILED reproduction
>of this map? As far as I know, It doesn't exists (the Italian facsimile
>edition of 1956 is in 45 leaves).
>Thus, I shall presume that the map was printed from a good quality
>transparency NOT RELEASED BY THE MARCIANA LIBRARY. That's the reason why
>the title of my first message was "copyright violation".
>If we had received from the publisher/printer of the map a request of

>permission to publish this document - which is unique, being a manuscript
>map - we wouldn't discuss, now, of "copyright volation".
>
>Piero
>
>-----Messaggio originale-----
>Da: James Enterline [SMTP:jenterli@concentric.net]
>Inviato: mercoledi 28 marzo 2001 17.21
>A: maphist@camail1.harvard.edu
>Oggetto: Re: R: Copyright violation
>
>I understand what you're saying, Piero, but I think you have to sharpen
>your focus on legal matters. Before Italy passed its legislation in the
>early 1990's, there was nothing to prevent Americans or Japanese (or anyone
>else) from making copies of your holdings from out-of-copyright
>publications like the 1889 Nordenskiold. Then along comes Italy and
>unilaterally passes something to make that illegal. How can Italy expect
>to legislate for the rest of the world? It seems to me that it's not a
>matter of being very difficult or expensive to prosecute, but absolutely
>impossible. Unless I'm missing something, the situation seems so
>outrageous that it must involve some kind of misunderstanding
>somewhere. Can you clarify this?
>
> All best, Jim.
>
>At 08:44 AM 03/28/01 +0200, you wrote:
>
>
>>-----Messaggio originale-----
>>Da: James Enterline [SMTP:jenterli@concentric.net]
>>Inviato: martedi 27 marzo 2001 23.08
>>A: maphist@camail1.harvard.edu
>>Oggetto: Re: Copyright violation
>>
>>How would anything like that be enforced
>>outside Italy, Piero?
>>
>> All best, Jim.
>>
>>In this case, it would be very difficult and expensive to prosecute an
>>American or Japanese publisher who didn't respect the Italian law on the
>>rights of reproduction. That's the reason why I posted my first message.
>>
>>Piero


TENTATIVE ANSWER:

There is indeed one LARGE AND DETAILED reproduction of the Fra Mauro map (as big as the original): the one I have constructed myself, with the help of my wife (and we had lots of fun doing it...), in 1994, to be used for my speech "A Origem do "Plano da Índia": o Mapa Veneziano do Infante Dom Pedro [The Origin of the Plan of India: Prince Peter's Venetian Map" (speech made in 09.12.1994, at the Casa Municipal da Cultura de Coimbra [Coimbra Municipal Hall of Culture]). This was followed by the publication of that text as chapter 4 ("A Origem do Plano da Índia: o Mapa Veneziano do Infante Dom Pedro" [The Origins of the "Plan of India": Prince Peter's Venitian Map]) of my book A Maldição da Memória do Infante Dom Pedro e as Origens dos Descobrimentos Portugueses [The Accursed Heritage of Prince Peter and the Origins of the Portuguese Discoveries] (Figueira da Foz, 1995).

We built that facsimile, in dimensions very close to the original, using images from the forty eight leaves of the 1956 Italian edition (reference LEPORACE, Tullia Gasparrini; ALMAGIÀ, Roberto, ed., Il Mappamondo di Fra Mauro, Roma: Istituto Poligrafico dello Stato, 1956), which we superimposed one to each other... and then glued, with lots of patience (and fun) ...
Of course that, at that time, the building and the use of such a reproduction had not any commercial purpose (and that will continue for the future).

This big wall map reproduction belongs today to the Luis de Albuquerque Center for the Studies of the Sea, the historical society devoted to the Maritime History of Portugal and the Maritime History of Prince Peter's region of Coimbra. We use it for exhibitions and other scientific purposes.





Alfredo Pinheiro Marques ** ** *
Centro de Estudos do Mar ******** ***
PORTUGAL ** ******** ***** **
************* * * * *
** ************
************* ****
****************** * *** **
* ** ** ****************************** ** ** * ****
*************************************************************
CEMAR-Centro de Estudos do Mar, Urb. Monfoz, Lote 15, 5º Esq.
Buarcos, 3080-238 FIGUEIRA DA FOZ - PORTUGAL.
Phone: (351) 233434450, Fax: (351) 233434450.
alfmarq.cemar@mail.telepac.pt
*************************************************************
Alfredo Pinheiro Marques, Faculdade de Letras,
Universidade de Coimbra, 3000-447 COIMBRA - PORTUGAL.
Phone: (351) 2394109900, Fax: (351) 239836733.
alfmarq@ci.uc.pt, Phone Home: (351) 233433258.

Visit the Bibliography of the Discoveries at http://www.uc.pt/bd.apm
http://alf.ci.uc.pt/fluc/docent/currdoc/alfmarq.htm
************************************************ DESIR ******
_______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl
X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f X-Sender: maphist@mail.maphist.nl (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Wed, 03 Apr 2002 11:12:03 +0200 To: maphist@geog.uu.nl From: List-owner MapHist Subject: [MapHist] MapHist available in digest format; Archives Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 Dear all Since two weeks the digest format of the MapHist discussion list is up and running. In the digest format, the regular mailing list postings are accumulated and send out as one e-mail per day (at 6 a.m Central European Time, about midnight in America). This helps to reduce overall traffic into your e-mail box. When you want to receive the messages in digest format you have to sub-scribe to the list maphist-digest and to unsub-scribe from the regular list. Instructions are on http://www.maphist.nl > (Un)sub-scribing > option 2. Subscribers to maphist-digest list are able to send messages to the regular MapHist list. The archive file for March 2002 is available on http://www.maphist.nl > Archives. The CD-Rom with the archives 1994-2001 is still available (same webpage) Peter Peter van der Krogt List-owner MapHist List-info: http://www.maphist.nl _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f From: ahudson@NYPL.ORG Subject: [MapHist] Scandinavia House map exhibit To: maphist@geog.uu.nl, maps-l@listserv.uga.edu X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Release 5.0.4 June 8, 2000 Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2002 10:55:19 -0500 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on MHTMAIL02/MHT/Nypl(Release 5.0.8 |June 18, 2001) at 04/03/2002 10:55:51 AM Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 Just a note for you potential visitors to this exhibit-- Scandinavia House, at 58 Park Avenue, is located between 37th and 38th Streets, on the west side, downtown traffic side, of Park Avenue. For a landmark, Grand Central Terminal is at 42nd Street and Park. Alice C. Hudson Chief, Map Division The Humanities and Social Sciences Library The New York Public Library 5th Avenue & 42nd Street, Room 117 New York, NY 10018-2788 ahudson@nypl.org; 212-930-0589; fax 212-930-0027 http://nypl.org/research/chss/map/map.html _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f From: ahudson@NYPL.ORG Subject: [MapHist] Scandinavian maps exhibition To: maphist@geog.uu.nl, maps-l@listserv.uga.edu X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Release 5.0.4 June 8, 2000 Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2002 17:28:21 -0500 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on MHTMAIL02/MHT/Nypl(Release 5.0.8 |June 18, 2001) at 04/03/2002 05:28:53 PM X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by pop.geog.uu.nl id AAA22326 Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 Dear mapsters, See below for information on an upcoming exhibition and symposium on the mapping of Scandinavia... For Immediate Release March 2002 EXHIBITION OF RARE EARLY MAPS TO OPEN AT SCANDINAVIA HOUSE Scandia: Important Early Maps of the Northern Regions and Maps and Charts of Norway from the Collection of William B. and Inger G. Ginsberg April 17 ? August 16, 2002 The exhibition Scandia: Important Early Maps of the Northern Regions and Maps and Charts of Norway from the Collection of William B. and Inger G. Ginsberg opens at Scandinavia House on April 17. On view through August 16, 2002, this exhibition of 76 early maps and sea charts presents some of the most significant maps in the history of printed cartography of Scandinavia and Norway. The exhibition also includes half a dozen historically important world maps that illustrate the context in which the mapping of Scandinavia took place. From antiquity to the present day, cartography has both enhanced and reflected our understanding of the world. Ancient maps depict gods and monsters, celestial bodies, and earthly terrain, demonstrating not only man's knowledge of natural boundaries, but his view of his place in the world. This exhibition celebrates the earliest maps of Scandinavia, from the first map of the area in 1482, to the sumptuous maps of the major cartographers of the 17th century, to the detailed maps made by 19th century Scandinavians. The diversity of source, purpose, and function of these maps, together with their elements of science and fantasy, decoration and utility, and history and propaganda, make them fascinating objects for study, appreciation, and enjoyment. Edward P. Gallagher, President of The American-Scandinavian Foundation (ASF), says, "For more than 90 years, the ASF has been dedicated to increasing the understanding and appreciation of Scandinavia in the United States. The exhibition accomplishes this admirably while also providing a broad historical perspective and unique visual pleasures. We extend our hearty thanks to Inger and William Ginsberg for sharing their collection and vision with us." While the maps in the exhibition contain elaborate decorative elements, they have been selected primarily for their importance in the history of cartography. They include maps printed from wood blocks and from copper plates, maps contained in books of maps (though not necessarily atlases in the modern sense of the word), maps published separately, and maps included as illustrations in books. The first part of the exhibition, "Important Early Maps of the Northern Regions," covers the earliest period of printed maps of Scandinavia, specifically 1482 to 1601. The 43 maps comprising this section include the first printed map of Scandinavia (published in Ulm in 1482), maps of Scandinavia and Denmark from the first modern atlas (published by Abraham Ortelius in 1570), and rare world maps by Gastaldi (1546) and Rosaccio (a wall map first published in 1597). The second part is devoted to "Maps of Norway, 1602-1795" and "Sea Charts of Norway, 1585-1798." Among the 33 maps in this section are the first map showing Norway alone, the first map of Norway drawn and issued by a Norwegian cartographer, and a sea chart from the first official coastal survey of Norway. Gallery talks will be held at 12:30 p.m. on four Tuesdays: April 30, May 7 and 21, and June 4. SYMPOSIUM: Mapping the Scene: Antique Maps and the 21st Century This symposium explores both the practical aspects of developing a map collection and the intellectual pursuit and study of historical documents. Moderated by John Noble Wilford, senior science writer at The New York Times and author of The Mapmakers (Knopf, 2000), the panel will include Robert Augustyn, partner, Martayan Lan, Inc. Fine Antique Maps and Rare Books, New York; Alice C. Hudson, Chief, Map Division, The New York Public Library; and Dr. Seymour Schwartz, map collector and author of The Mapping of America (Abrams, 1980), which has recently been released in a new edition. Saturday, April 20, 3:00 p.m. Tickets: $15, $10 American-Scandinavian Foundation members Publication An 96-page catalogue with 76 illustrations, many in color, will be available for $25 in The Shop@Scandinavia House. The catalogue provides extensive discussion of the relevant history of cartography and of the most important cartographers of these areas. It also includes a selective annotated bibliography pointing the way to relevant reference material for the viewer of this exhibition who is interested in learning more about cartography in general or the mapping of Scandinavia and Norway in particular. Scandinavia House: The Nordic Center in America Scandinavia House is the home of The American-Scandinavian Foundation, which has been promoting educational and cultural exchange between the U.S. and the Nordic countries since 1910. The center brings to life the rich cultures and traditions of the five Nordic countries ? Denmark, Finland, Iceland, Norway and Sweden. A destination for New Yorkers and visitors to the city, Scandinavia House presents a wide variety of exhibitions and programs, including films, concerts, lectures, and additional events encompassing the visual and performing arts, literature, technology, science and business. Scandinavia House is open to the public Tuesday through Saturday from 12:00 to 6:00 p.m. Transportation: By bus, Number 1, 2, 3, or 4 up Madison Avenue; Number 1, 2, 3, or 5 down Fifth Avenue. By subway, Number 6 to 33rd Street, Number 4, 5, 6, 7, or S to 42nd Street/Grand Central Station. The American-Scandinavian Foundation (ASF) Founded in 1910, the ASF serves as the leading educational and cultural link between the United States and the five Nordic countries: Denmark, Finland, Iceland, Norway, and Sweden. It is a publicly-supported, nonprofit organization that provides a forum for the exchange of ideas and cultural understanding and carries on an extensive program of fellowships, grants, trainee placement, publishing, membership offerings, and cultural activities. The Foundation has more than 6,000 members throughout the United States, and alumni and donors worldwide. It is governed by a Board of Trustees that includes individuals from the United States and Scandinavia. The five Nordic heads of state serve as the Foundation's patrons. Public Information: For information about exhibitions and other programs at Scandinavia House, the public should contact The American-Scandinavian Foundation at 212-879-9779. Press Information: For additional information or visual materials, the press should contact Joan Jastrebski at 212-847-9717 or joan@amscan.org. Alice C. Hudson Chief, Map Division The Humanities and Social Sciences Library The New York Public Library 5th Avenue & 42nd Street, Room 117 New York, NY 10018-2788 ahudson@nypl.org; 212-930-0589; fax 212-930-0027 http://nypl.org/research/chss/map/map.html _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f From: "V+R Mayer" To: "Maphist" Subject: [MapHist] Query (Golfe de Mexique) Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2002 18:38:56 -0600 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714
Dear Maphisters:

On page http://www.maphist.nl/illustr.html you will find the illustrations and partial descriptions of two maps. I would appreciate your help by providing me with further information on them such as author, out of what atlas they are, place of publication, year and any other relevant info.
 
Thank you.
 
Roberto
X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f From: MKBabinski@aol.com Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2002 20:33:36 EST Subject: Re: [MapHist] Query (Golfe de Mexique) - SHORT RESPONSE To: maphist@geog.uu.nl X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 259 Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 In a message dated 4/3/2002 7:54:28 PM Eastern Standard Time, ryvmayer@internet.com.mx writes:


Dear Maphisters:

On page http://www.maphist.nl/illustr.html you will find the illustrations and partial descriptions of two maps. I would appreciate your help by providing me with further information on them such as author, out of what atlas they are, place of publication, year and any other relevant info.

Thank you.

Roberto

Roberto,

You have 2 sheets of the large 6-sheet map: 'Grand Theatre de la Guerre en Amerique suivant les plus Novelles Observations des Espagnols, Anglois, François & Hollandois' published by R. & J. Ottens. Your sheets are No. 5 and No. 6 as described below. Description below appears at page 19 of my 1998 book 'HENRY POPPLE'S 1733 MAP OF THE BRITISH EMPIRE IN AMERICA'

see at URL --> http://hometown.aol.com/map1733/popple/book.htm

A more detailed and lengthy description from my computer notes (which were used to generate the short book note below) will follow in a separate email.

Mark Babinski

++++++++++++++++++++++

OTTENS, Reinier & Josua - 1740. 1 inset map copied from Popple. See picture at p.56/--/57. The Harbourg of Porto Bello inset map after Popple is on Sheet 3 of the 6-Sheet map Grand Theatre de la Guerre en Amerique suivant les plus Novelles Observations des Espagnols, Anglois, François & Hollandois, published in Amsterdam in 1740-41 and arranged as shown below. This War of Jenkins' Ear map shows the West Indies and Gulf of Mexico area.

SHEETS 557 mm 531 mm 518 mm
441 mm    5                1                3
405 mm    6                2                4

The map-sheets as enumerated above have the following correspondence to map-sheets of Phillips Atlases No. 3495: 5-114, 1-115, 3-116, 6-117, 2-118, 4-119. This 6-sheet map was published in 3 parts: Sheets 1 & (modified) 2 in May 1740, Sheets 3 & 4 in October 1740 and Sheets 5 & 6 around June 1741 (see Ottens' advertisements of the map in the Amsterdamsche Courant on May 12, 1740, October 6, 1740 and June 10, 1741 [Van der Krogt, ADVERTENTIES]).

Sheets 1 and 2 were published on their own, as separate maps (sometimes sold joined together), prior to 1740 - but Sheet 2 was modified for the 6-Sheet map. Each sheet has its own full border - 6 mm wide. When the sheets are joined together they form a map of size: 1582 mm width x 834 mm height.

There is a total of 8 inset maps on this map - (1) A DRAUGHT of ST. AUGUSTIN and its HARBOUR; (2) La Havane; (3) Plan de la Ville Espagnole de S. Domingue; (4) HARBOURG of PORTO BELLO [copied from Popple]; (5) Plan de la Baye de Carthagena; (6) Nouvelle Carte de L'Isle de Curacao; (7) Nouveau Plan du Port et de la Ville d'Acapulco; (8) Plan de la Vera-Cruz.

An Ottens catalogue lists the six sheets available for sale separately or as one unit. [Campbell, Tony]. The 6-sheet map also appeared in Ottens' Atlas Sive Geographia Compendiosia in qua Orbis Terrarum Paucis Attamen Novissimis Tabulis Ostenditur or Atlas Nouveau, Contenant Toutes les Parties du Monde and Atlas Minor Sive Geographia Compendiosia in qua Orbis Terrarum Paucis Attamen Novissimis Tabulis Ostenditur.

LOCATIONS: LIBRARY OF CONGRESS Cat. No. G1015 .08 1745 Vault (Phillips Atlases No. 3495); BRITISH LIBRARY Cat. No. K.123.9 a-f; NATIONAL MARITIME MUSEUM, England Cat. No. B6177/2 of 2, Class No. 912.44 (100) "17": 094 OTT (Sanderson No. 173 and No. 174 (maps 258-263)). Campbell, Tony; Kapp(a) No. 36; Kapp(b) No. 43; Thomas & Smith No. 159-160. See also Walter Reuben, Inc. (Austin, Texas), Catalogue 36, Rare Books and Maps, [1980], Item No. 75 for picture of Sheet 5. This 6-sheet map is listed in Harvard University's 1831 map catalog at p. 201 [Peirce].


 X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f From: MKBabinski@aol.com Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2002 20:57:19 EST Subject: [MapHist] (Golfe de Mexique) - SHORT RESPONSE - REFERENCES USED To: maphist@geog.uu.nl X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 259 Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 Roberto,

References used in my book description of the 6-sheet Ottens' map follow. I know I don't have Peter's name right, I can never remember which part is important, ie. is it:
KROGT van der, Peter
or
VAN DER KROGT, Peter
or some other sequence.

Mark
++++++++++++++++++++++++++

CAMPBELL, Tony - ROBERT DOUWMA CATALOGUE 22 - Rare and Interesting Printed Maps up to 1800, Item No. 97, 99 Great Russell Street, London, [November] 1979. Printed by Robert Stockwell Ltd., Baden Place, London. Compiled by Tony Campbell.

KAPP, Capt. Kit S. - [a] The Early Maps of Panama up to 1865, Map Collectors' Circle, No. 73, London, 1971; [b] The Early Maps of Colombia up to 1850, Map Collectors' Circle, No. 77, London, 1971.

PEIRCE, Benjamin - A CATALOGUE OF THE MAPS AND CHARTS IN THE LIBRARY OF HARVARD UNIVERSITY IN CAMBRIDGE, MASSACHUSETTS. CAMBRIDGE: E.W. Metcalf and Company, Printers to the University. 1831. Bibliothèque Nationale de France (Département des Cartes et Plans).

SANDERSON, Michael - NATIONAL MARITIME MUSEUM, CATALOGUE OF THE LIBRARY, Volume 3 - Atlases & Cartography, Her Majesty's Stationery Office, London, 1971.

SMITH, Thomas R. & THOMAS, Bradford L. - MAPS OF THE 16TH TO 19TH CENTURIES IN THE UNIVERSITY OF KANSAS LIBRARIES: An Analytical Carto-bibliography, The University of Kansas Publications, Library Series No. 16, Lawrence, Kansas, 1963. Catalog of the Map Collection at the Kenneth Spencer Research Library, University of Kansas.

VAN DER KROGT, Peter - ADVERTENTIES VOOR KAARTEN, ATLASSEN, GLOBES e.d. IN AMSTERDAMSE KRANTEN 1621-1811, with an Introduction in English, HES Uitgevers, Utrecht, 1985.
 X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f From: MKBabinski@aol.com Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2002 21:10:28 EST Subject: [MapHist] (Golfe de Mexique) - LONG RESPONSE To: maphist@geog.uu.nl X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 259 Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 Roberto:

Let me know if you need details of the references labeled XX??? below.

Mark

+++++++++++++++++++++++

WAR OF JENKINS' EAR MAP BY REINIER AND JOSUA OTTENS, 1740-41, WITH POPPLE'S PORTO BELLO INSET MAP. 

Large map on 6 sheets, published in parts from May 1740 to June 1741, showing all of Central America, the Gulf of Mexico from Florida to Guiana, and the West Indies. Each sheet has full border - 6 mm wide. Size of map when sheets joined and excess borders removed: 1582 mm width x 834 mm height.  Sheet arrangement (dimensions shown below are of engraved surface, including borders, of each individual sheet):

              557 mm    531 mm     518 mm
441 mm     5              1               3
405 mm     6              2               4

Main title (on Sheet 3):  "GRAND THEATRE || DE LA GUERRE EN || AMERIQUE || Suivant les Plus Novelles Obser= || vations des ESPAGNOLS, ANGLOIS, || FRANÇOIS & HOLLANDOIS. || Mis au jour par R. & I. OTTENS || Geographies á Amsterdam." Secondary title (on Sheet 1):  "NOVA TABULA Exhibens Insulas CUBAM et HISPANIOLAM || Vulgo S. DOMINGO Dictam Insulas LUCAIAS seu BAHAMA= || NAS ac Peninsulam FLORIDÆ ex Novissimis Observationibus Hispanorum || Anglorum Gallorum, atque Hollandorum in lucem edita. || a R. et I. OTTENS Amstelodami". Inset maps: on SHEET 1 - (1) A DRAUGHT of ST. AUGUSTIN and its HARBOUR [133 mm height x 110 mm width] [copied from Moll's West Indies];  (2) La Havane;  (3) Plan de la Ville Espagnole de S. Domingue; on SHEET 3 - (4) HARBOURG of PORTO BELLO [132 mm height x 106 mm width] [copied from Popple] [XX716a, No. 57];   (5) Plan de la Baye de Carthagena [XX716b, No. 64];  (6) Nouvelle Carte de L'Isle de Curacao; on SHEET 6 - (7) Nouveau Plan du Port et de la Ville d'Acapulco;  (8) Plan de la Vera-Cruz. LOCATION: British Library: Cat. No. K.123.9 a-f.  National Maritime Museum: Call No. B6177/2 of 2, Class No. 912.44 (100) "17" : 094 OTT (in: Atlas Sive Geographia Compendiosia in qua Orbis Terrarum Paucis Attamen Novissimis Tabulis Ostenditur or Atlas Nouveau, Contenant Toutes les Parties du Monde, […] En deux Tomes. TOME SECOND. A Amsterdam).

There are other, earlier (XX716b - c. 1708, c.1715), editions of Sheet 2 [XX716a-No.36, XX716b-No.43] with a title (not present on Sheet 2 of the  6-sheet map described above) in upper-left corner:  "Nova Isthmi Americani, qui et Panamiensis item Dariensis, Tabula in qua urbes Porto Bello, Panama et Carthagena … a Reinero et Josua Ottens, Amstelodami". It appeared in Ottens' Atlas Maior [Phillips, XX745, No. 4257, Vol. 7, No. 107.]  A copy of such earlier edition of Sheet 2 joined with Sheet 1 into a single 2-sheet map is at the British Library, Cat. No. K.123.18. It is also described in Lowery, XX605, pp. 258-9 LC 323.  Kapp, XX716b, No. 43, claims that Sheet 2 without the title (part of the later 6-sheet map) is from a new plate. For picture of Sheet 2 see Kapp, XX716a, plate VII.

Tony Campbell, XX664, p.52 - No.97, in his description of the 1740 6-sheet Ottens map, states:

"The map's bibliographical history is complicated by the fact that the two middle sheets [here Sheets 1 and 2] (at least) had been issued on their own before the six-sheet map was conceived. The lower middle section [here Sheet 2] originally bore its own title, 'Nova Isthmi Americani, qui et Panamiensis item Dariensis, Tabula.'  Although Kapp's date of 1708 is too early for the partnership between Reinier and Josua Ottens that began in 1725, there certainly were two earlier states of that sheet. The second state added the course of the treasure fleet, while for this further amended form [Sheet 2 of the 1740  6-sheet map] the title has been erased and the important overland link between Panama and Portobelo inserted. As the Ottens catalogue points out, the six sheets were available separately or as one unit. Only one of the five 'factice' Ottens atlases in the Library of Congress contained the full map. Kapp [XX716a] (MCS 73) 36 & 57, plate VII; Koeman [XX723] III/89; Lowery [XX605] [pp. 258-9] [LC] 323; Phillips [XX745] 3495."

M.B. The map was completed in stages. The first two sheets of this map (Sheets 1 and 2 ?) were advertised by Reinier and Josua Ottens in the Amsterdamsche Courant on May 12, 1740 - "t'Amst. by R. en J. Ottens […] de 2 Eerste Stukken van 't Groot Toneel des Oorlogs in America, 2 Bladen: de Nieuwste en Beste Kaert van America, 6 bl." No price was provided. The next two sheets (3 and 4 ?) and a complete set of the first four sheets ( Sheets 1, 2, 3 and 4) were advertised in the Amsterdamsche Courant on October 6, 1740 - "t'Amsterdam by R. en J. Ottens, is gedrukt en te bekomen, het nieuw GROOT TONNEEL DES OORLOGS IN AMERICA, waer in naeuwkeurig aengewezen werd de Spaense, Franse, Engelse en Hollandse Colonien, in die gewesten: als meede de Havens en Steeden van St. Augustin, de Havanna, St. Domingo [Sheet 1], Porto Bello, Cartagena en 't eyland Curaçao [Sheet 3], in 't groot bestek in 4 bladen, de prys is 36 stuyv., het 3 en 4de Stuk is apart te bekomen voor die 2 eerste Stukken mogen hebben voor 16 stuyv." The price of the 4-sheet set was 36 stuyvers and for the 2 new sheets 16 stuyvers. This would suggest that the first two sheets, advertised in May, 1740, were originally sold at 20 stuyvers. The complete set of 6 sheets was advertised in the Amsterdamsche Courant on June 10, 1741 at a price of 48 stuyvers - "t'Amsterd. by R. en J. Ottens, Kaert- en Boekverkopers op den Nieuwendyk, is nu compleet afgedrukt en te bekomen, het Niuw GROOT TONEEL DES OORLOGS IN AMERICA, in 6 groote Bladen, inhoudende de geheele Golf van Mexico, en de Landen van Florida, Louisiana, Mexico, Guatimalo, Carthagena, de Caraques, en de onderhoorige Eylanden, met de voornaemste Plans der Steeden en Havens in 't groot bestek, als van Acapulco, Vera Crux [Sheet 6], St. Augustin, de Havana, St. Domingo [Sheet 1], Porto Bello, Carthagena, en 't Eyland Curasouw [Sheet 3], alles na de beste en nieuwste observatie der Spaensche, Engelsche, Fransche en Hollanders in 't ligt gebragt, de prys is afgezet 48 stuyvers". Van der Krogt, XX990.

 X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f X-Sender: np01hd@mail.telepac.pt Date: Thu, 4 Apr 2002 02:12:00 +0000 To: maphist@geog.uu.nl From: "Alfredo P. Marques - CEMAR" Subject: [MapHist] Martin Behaim's Libra in Guinea Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 This message failed to be distributed yesterday in MapHist together with several others sent at the same time, because it had more than 20,000 characters, the limit of the list's messages. I am resending it now in a slightly different version, without the quotations from old MapHist messages, to make it smaller. These quotations and the questions initiating the debate can be found in the archives on http://www.maphist.nl > archives (being these archives one more good thing that Peter has the great merit of creating and maintaining for the list). 6666,3333,0000QUESTION: MARTIN BEHAIM'S LIBRA IN GUINEA TENTATIVE ANSWER: Dear Jean Pierre Martin, Chris Hermansen, et al. Returning to MapHist, I was informed that a long and enriching discussion had been maintained here during several weeks, dealing with the curious fact of the representation of the ecliptic in Behaim's globe, his depiction of Libra in the Gulf of Guinea, etc.. Here is what I can say about that. There can be a good reason for the German-Azorean Martin Behaim -- a collaborator of the Portuguese king John II (the grandson, avenger, and political heir of the regent Prince Peter of Coimbra, and the one truly responsible for the Portuguese innovations and discoveries in the Gulf of Guinea and beyond, from 1982 to 1992...) --, to place the crossing of the ecliptic and the equator in the waters of Guinea, and depict there Libra (the symbol of scales, called "balança" in Portuguese). There can be this reason: THE COAT-OF-ARMS OF PRINCE PETER (Infante Dom Pedro... the progressive Regent of the CrownŠ the one from Coimbra... from Venice, the Fra Mauro... the book of Marco Polo... the true origins of the Portuguese Discoveries without the political myths of Prince Henry... my damnation as a Portuguese official historian... the 1997 shame of the 17th ICHC in Lisbon... Mr. Tony Campbell's worries... etc., etc., etc....) HAS EXACTLY THE SYMBOL OF SCALES... And that symbol (meaning Justice, and the Crown's political support for the common people who bring market and modernization to the History of Mankind) continued to be used by his descendents Dukes of Coimbra and Aveiro, from a certain point together with the symbol of the Pelican, also used (together with the scales) by his grandson king John II (the tropical maritime bird from Africa... which is said to take blood from its own chest to feed the small ones...). And the invention of astronomical navigation in the Atlantic with the use of new measure instruments such as the nautical astrolabe developed by the Portuguese at that time, c.1485 (the most important innovation brought by the 15th century Portuguese navigations), was being done exactly there, in that place, at that time, in the Gulf of Guinea...! Done by whom? By king John's collaborators -- navigators and astronomers together... changing experiences... building something new... Navigators such as Diogo de Azambuja from Montemor-o-Velho near Coimbra (the builder of Elmina castle in 1482), Diogo Cao from Montemor-o-Velho (the one who went until Namibia and crossed Skeleton Coast, 1482-1486), João Afonso de Aveiro (Nigeria, 1486) and Bartolomeu Dias (the one who later went in 1487-1488 to discover the cape of Good Hope...), and astronomers such as master Jose Vizinho (a Jewish cosmographer), Master Diogo Ortiz de Vilhegas or Calzadilla (a former astronomer from the Spanish Salamanca university, now working for the Portuguese...), Duarte Pacheco Pereira (later the author of the rutter "Esmeraldo de Situ Orbis" and a witness in the signing of the Tordesillas Treaty...) and most of all Master Rodrigo de Lucena, the "fisico-mor" and "cosmografo-mor" (chief-doctor and chief-cosmographer) in King John's service. Master Rodrigo de Lucena, whom we now know for sure, without any kind of doubt, was no less than the same man who had been, some decades before, the "fisico-mor" of his grand-father the Regent Prince Peter of Coimbra, the one truly responsible for the origins of the Portuguese Discoveries...! This meaning that the chief doctor and cosmographer in king John's times (the times of the invention of astronomical navigation in the Gulf of GuineaŠ) was the same man who had had that same job, in the previous generation, with Prince Peter of Coimbra... (with Prince Peter, the Duke of Coimbra, markgraf of Treviso, and former Regent of the Portuguese Crown, murdered in 1449 in Alfarrobeira...). Master Rodrigo de Lucena, a man who had nothing to do with the insignificant and mythical figure of Prince Henry... the one of the childish myths, due to political reasons, such as the "School of Sagres"... etc, etc....). And who was Martin Behaim? He was the German married with a Portuguese-Flemish woman in Azores, and one more of king John's men... a little bit navigator, a little bit astronomer... Was he trying to make himself (in the famous globe that he had built in 1492 when he spent some time in his German homeland) look more navigator and more astronomer than he really was? It is possible, but no one can deny that, in fact, to a certain degree, he was a navigator with the Portuguese, and an astronomer in the beginnings of Portuguese nautical astronomy. In the past, authors such as Joaquim Bensaude and Ravenstein were too fast to dismiss Behaim's contribution as being too exaggerate, and considered it indeed small. I myself accepted that (together with all other Portuguese historians). But now I think a little bit differently. I think that Behaim's significance in Portuguese navigations and cosmography -- and Behaim's closeness with king John II -- was a-posteriori silenced, in the overall political process of a-posteriori silencing the enormous importance (in Portuguese internal affairs, and in overseas discoveries) of king John, called the "Perfect Prince", the grandson, avenger, and political heir, of the regent Prince Peter of Coimbra... (and "geographical heir"... heir of the Fra Mauro map which had been ordered to Portugal...) Well... but some documents survived (such as the copy of the Fra Mauro map, c.1448-1459, in the Marciana Library in Venice...), and one of them is the Nurenberg Behaim Globe (even if with some inaccuracies and excessive claims...) -- and it is the oldest in the world... -- and IT SHOWS A SYMBOL OF SCALES IN THE GULF OF GUINEA...! Thank you to the MapHist discussion group for calling attention, week after week, in February-March 2002, to that strange positioning of Libra in the Gulf of Guinea, the heart of the 15th century Portuguese Discoveries and invention of astronomical navigation by latitude (through the measuring of the Sun's position). Funny thingŠ there is also a figure with scales in the carved scenes in relation with the construction of Guinea's Castelo da Mina (Elmina Castle) in the tombstone, in Montemor-o-Velho, near Coimbra, of the navigator Diogo de Azambuja (the Guinea team commander of Diogo Cao, Bartolomeu Dias, João Afonso de Aveiro and Martin Behaim). Diogo de Azambuja is the same man who, after building the Elmina Castle in 1482, was at king John II's side in 1484 when the king, defending himself from a conspiracy led by the most important feudal landlords, had to kill with his own hands the third Duke of Viseu, heir of the first Duke, the mythical Prince Henry... These people sure liked to depict and to carve scales... (and had complicated POLITICAL problems to solve...) Best wishes for any possible future research on this. But probably it will be good to take into account not only matters of astronomy but also matters of Portuguese iconography and heraldry... AND 15th CENTURY POLITICSŠ (but let's hope that the 20th century Portuguese politicians and co-organizers of the 17th ICHC allow future researchers to talk about this... and permit the use of the word "political" in relation to 15th century affairs...). With all best wishes for everybody 6666,3333,0000Alfredo Pinheiro Marques0000,0000,FFFF ** ** * Centro de Estudos do Mar ******** *** PORTUGAL ** ******** ***** ** ************* * * * * ** ************ ************* **** ****************** * *** ** * ** ** ****************************** ** ** * **** ************************************************************* CEMAR-Centro de Estudos do Mar, Urb. Monfoz, Lote 15, 5º Esq. Buarcos, 3080-238 FIGUEIRA DA FOZ - PORTUGAL. Phone: (351) 233434450, Fax: (351) 233434450. alfmarq.cemar@mail.telepac.pt ************************************************************* 6666,3333,0000Alfredo Pinheiro Marques, Faculdade de Letras, Universidade de Coimbra, 3000-447 COIMBRA - PORTUGAL0000,0000,FFFF. 6666,3333,0000Phone: (351) 2394109900, Fax: (351) 2398367330000,0000,FFFF. 6666,3333,0000alfmarq@ci.uc.pt, Phone Home: (351) 233433258. Visit the Bibliography of the Discoveries at http://www.uc.pt/bd.apm http://alf.ci.uc.pt/fluc/docent/currdoc/alfmarq.htm 6666,3333,0000************************************************ DESIR ****** _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f X-Sender: krogt@pop.geog.uu.nl X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Thu, 04 Apr 2002 10:13:32 +0200 To: maphist@geog.uu.nl From: Peter van der Krogt Subject: [MapHist] How to write my name! (was Re Golfe de Mexique) Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 Mark At 03:57 4-4-2002, you wrote: >References used in my book description of the 6-sheet Ottens' map follow. >I know I don't have Peter's name right, I can never remember which part is >important, ie. is it: >KROGT van der, Peter >or >VAN DER KROGT, Peter >or some other sequence. The official sequence is of course Peter van der Krogt, in alphabetical lists you may choose VAN DER KROGT, Peter (sub V - Belgian, French and English method) and KROGT, Peter van der (sub K - Dutch and German method) Peter (van der Krogt) P.S. If you have the MapHist cd-rom, a few years ago there was a discussion on the correct spelling, alphabetising and referring to Dutch names (mapmakers as well as maphistorians). YYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY Dr Peter van der Krogt Map Historian, Explokart Research Program Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht P.O. Box 80.115 3508 TC UTRECHT, The Netherlands e-mail: peter@maphist.nl Homepage: MapHist: Genealogy: Elementymology: Columbus Monuments: YYYYYYYYYYYYYYY PER ANGUSTA AD AUGUSTA YYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f From: F.Herbert@RGS.ORG To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Subject: RE: [MapHist] Mr. Menzie's theory and RGS lecture Date: Thu, 4 Apr 2002 11:55:46 +0100 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 Dear Alfredo, Like you, I and many others (most of whom read MapHist) have seen nothing in writing from Gavin Menzies FRGS on his theories - at least, certainly not the *whole* of his story. This moment is, perhaps, the ideal time to repeat my earlier message to MapHist: this was not - repeat *not* - an "RGS Lecture" (i.e. arranged and administered by this Society's Director and staff for its Fellows, and appearing officially as such both on our website and in our 'Forthcoming events' brochure distributed to Fellows). The refurbished, and suitably re-named, Ondaatje Lecture Theatre - along with other rooms - were hired privately for the occasion as, indeed, virtually anyone may do: our Jacobean-style Main Hall being one of the top London venues for wedding receptions for example [end of advertisement]. It would be appreciated if MapHist (Peter!) were to cease using the above subject heading; 'Lecture at the RGS-IBG' would be more honest and less contentious. An invitation to a "Francis Harbour" received here, to attend the occasion at 2 [sic] Kensington Gore, London SW7 2AR, was not taken up by Yours truly, Francis Herbert f.herbert@rgs.org http://www.rgs.org [see 'Collections'/'Unlocking the Archives'] > -----Original Message----- > From: Alfredo P. Marques - CEMAR [SMTP:alfmarq.cemar@MAIL.TELEPAC.PT] > Sent: 03 April 2002 04:02 > To: maphist@geog.uu.nl > Subject: [MapHist] Mr. Menzie's theory and RGS lecture > > > > I was informed that while I was absent from this discussion list (during > the last months, since 14.12.2001) one of the issues on which there has > been some discussion and demand of data has to do with the RGS lecture on > Zeng Ho's Chinese alleged navigations to the Atlantic via the cape of Good > Hope (and alleged Chinese geographical information which would supposedly > be transmited from Venice to Portugal by Prince Peter of Coimbra, and > therefore entered the Portuguese maps and was later taken into account by > the Portuguese when they made their navigations to the cape of Good Hope > and to the West Atlantic). > > What I can say on the issue of Mr. Menzie's theory and his lecture at the > Royal Geographical Society is what follows. > > I don't have any information or any contact with Mr. Menzies, whose book, > as far as I was told, has not yet been published (and therefore it seems > that nobody knows for sure to what extent that book has to do with facts > contained in my theory about the origins of the Portuguese Discoveries and > the 'Plan of India" in Prince Peter's map of Fra Mauro and other Venetian > geographical information). > > Of course I was not at the RGS lecture, since I live very far from London, > in my little town called Figueira da Foz, a Portuguese seaside town near > Coimbra. > The first information I had on that lecture came from a telephone call > received here in my house at the Portuguese seaside town. It was made by a > London newspaper. The journalist said they wanted to have a statement from > me, since my name had been suggested for that purpose by someone in the > RGS. The only thing that I could say to them is what I am saying here and > now: as far as it seems, nobody knows anything yet about the true > background of that theory and about the extent of Mr. Menzies' conclusions > and proofs. I must therefore abstain from commenting what I don't know > yet. > > The only thing that I must state is that, as everybody knows (and my books > and articles show for many years now, dealing with Columbus, the mythical > Prince Henry, etc.), I always try to be close to the facts, and refuse > sensationalisms and unproven claims. I always try to work on the light of > strict criticism (even if that implies facing and fighting against long > accepted doctrines which have turned to 'official truths', but which are > in fact unproven chauvinistic claims, and long accepted > sensationalisms...). > > I don't know enough on Mr. Menzies' theory. Speaking about Venetian > geographical information which came to Portugal, I don't even know if the > autor -- a serious historian, or an amateur sensationalist...? -- is > quoting from my Prince Peter theory (published in the book 'A Maldição da > Memoria...'), or if he is ignoring it, or if he is copying it, or if he is > refuting it... I will therefore wait and see. > > And in relation with the core of Mr. Menzies' theory, of course I will > wait for some real evidence and real proofs. Which Chinese informations? > Which Chinese maps? Which Chinese archaeological remains in the Atlantic? > Which connections of Prince Peter or other Portuguese figure with > 'Venitian-Chinese' knowledge? Which Portuguese portolan-charts connected > to Chinese information and maps? Are there any proofs of that connection? > These are the interrogations that must have an answer. > > Waiting for any developments of this issue, I hope that any future debates > on this will be civilized and enriching. > > > > > > Alfredo Pinheiro Marques ** ** * > Centro de Estudos do Mar ******** *** > PORTUGAL ** ******** ***** ** > ************* * * * * > ** ************ > ************* **** > ****************** * *** ** > * ** ** ****************************** ** ** * **** > ************************************************************* > CEMAR-Centro de Estudos do Mar, Urb. Monfoz, Lote 15, 5º Esq. > Buarcos, 3080-238 FIGUEIRA DA FOZ - PORTUGAL. > Phone: (351) 233434450, Fax: (351) 233434450. > alfmarq.cemar@mail.telepac.pt > ************************************************************* > Alfredo Pinheiro Marques, Faculdade de Letras, > Universidade de Coimbra, 3000-447 COIMBRA - PORTUGAL. > Phone: (351) 2394109900, Fax: (351) 239836733. > alfmarq@ci.uc.pt, Phone Home: (351) 233433258. > > Visit the Bibliography of the Discoveries at http://www.uc.pt/bd.apm > http://alf.ci.uc.pt/fluc/docent/currdoc/alfmarq.htm > ************************************************ DESIR ****** > _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: > E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the > Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements > and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not > necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of > Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List > Information: http://www.maphist.nl _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f From: "tony campbell" To: "*MapHist" Subject: [MapHist] Thefts Seminar 25 April Date: Sat, 6 Apr 2002 08:16:31 +0100 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714
Jonathan Potter would like to bring the following event to the attention of
all interested parties, particularly map dealers and collectors.

                         RESPONDING TO THEFTS

On April 25th, 2002 the National Library of Wales at Aberystwyth will host
a full day seminar on "Responding to theft".

The seminar is sponsored by BRICMICS (British and Irish Committee
for Map Information and Cataloguing Systems) and the ABA (Antiquarian
Booksellers Association.)

Tony Campbell, the former Head of the Map Room, British Library will
present the key note speech and preside.

The seminar has been prompted by the spate of map thefts that came to
light last year.  All heritage items are at risk and this seminar is
seen as a forum where all stake holders have an opportunity to
contribute to the discussion and formulation of  "Best practice".  It
is of interest to curators, archivists, librarians as well as dealers
and private collectors.

The police authorities have to be involved when a crime has been
committed.  The initial response is to review security
arrangements, restrict public access to the collections.
Other topics are improved documentation, dissemination of information
and how to handle the media as well as trying to retrieve the stolen
property.

The symposium will run from 9.30am to 3.30pm and further details can be had
from Robert Davies or Jonathan Potter.  If you wish to attend, please
register with Robert Davies, at the Library.  (There is a limit to the
number of delegates that can be accommodated).

A charge of stlg30 per head will be levied to defray catering and other
costs.  A discount of stlg10 for BRICMICS and ABA members, and free for
all who make a presentation.

This is also a call for contributions.  If you have any experiences
of coping with such an occurrence, or have ideas and details that you can
share please offer the contribution beforehand so that it can be included
in the programme for the day.

Please bring the detail of this meeting to the attention of anyone who might
be interested.

Robert Davies  <  robert.davies@llgc.org.uk  > 

Jonathan Potter  <  jpmaps@attglobal.net  >
 
[posted by <  t.campbell@ockendon.clara.co.uk  >, but all queries please to the above]
 X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f X-Sender: sphinx@pop-server.nyc.rr.com Date: Sun, 7 Apr 2002 15:01:54 -0700 To: maphist@geog.uu.nl From: Adrianne Wortzel Subject: [MapHist] processes of medieval cartography- help for student Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 Dear Maphist: Can anyone shed any light on where to point this student in regard to "the processes of "medieval" cartography" Thank you. Adrianne Wortzel >Delivered-To: camouflagetown.tv%sphinx@camouflagetown.tv >X-UID: Inbox;993244885;13188 >X-Received: 7 Apr 2002 17:21:45 GMT >Date: Sun, 7 Apr 2002 10:21:44 -0700 (PDT) >From: Jessica McCarthy >To: sphinx@camouflagetown.tv > >Good afternoon. My name is Jessica McCarthy, and I am >doing a research project for my IB Math Studies course >(Many don't know what IB is: it's the toughest courses >available to high schoolers to prepare them for >college. For more information, please see: >http://www.ibo.org/). I'm researching how the >cartographers from the Age of Exploration (and even >before that) were able to draw nearly-accurate maps. >I will do a comparison of the medieval method to >today's method of satellites & GPS, etc. Any >information that you may have on the processes of >"medieval" cartography (i.e.: instructions on drawing >it out by hand - all I've been able to find is that >they used sextants, but no other explanations >whatsoever) is greatly appreciated. >Thank you, >Jessica McCarthy > >__________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax >http://taxes.yahoo.com/ _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f From: ExJournal@aol.com Date: Sun, 7 Apr 2002 21:45:11 EDT Subject: Re: [MapHist] Northwest Passage Place Names To: maphist@geog.uu.nl X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Mac - Post-GM sub 66 Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 You have opened a can of worms! Little of what is written is reliable in this part of the world. As an example, the origin of the name "Belcher Islands", a string of islands in Hudson's Bay, is attributed, in one source, as named after" Sir Captian Edward Belcher, RN. He captained 3 rescue expeditions to find the lost Franklin Expedition, if memory serves, in 1855, 56 and 1857. Unfortunately, The New WORLD ATLAS, published in 1806 shows thes islands as named. Belcher joined the RN in 1812. _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Date: Sun, 7 Apr 2002 23:33:27 -0400 Subject: Re: [MapHist] Northwest Passage Place Names X-Mailer: Juno 4.0.11 From: "Paul D. Boyd" Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 It struck me that many of the place names seem possibly Native American. Given the time frame mentioned (1600s), this would be likely. In the area northwest of the St. Lawrence between Quebec and the eastern shore of Lake Superior, the tribal groups were (E to W) Algonquin, Nipissing and Ojibwa, plus a band of Huron peoples along the northern shore of Lake Ontario. Look in appropriate chapters of the Smithsonian's auathoritative and comprehensive "Handbook of North American Indians", in volume 15 titled "Northeast." For example, there are a number of Huron place names on the map on p. 369 (sorry, I did not keep your list). You might get some help from, or be pointed in the right direction by, Canada's Museum of Civilization (approximate name) which is in a suburb of Ottawa -- sorry I haven't got the name. Or find some linguists from the native language groups of the area to see if the names are linguistically recognizable, and perhaps even interpretable. In the topynymy of Native Americans, typically there was an environmental or natural resource meaning for place names, or sometimes they commemorated events at that place. Ives Goddard says that Ojibwa, Ottawa, Nipissing and Algonquin peoples spoke a single language with numerous dialects, which "for convenience" he refers to as Ojibwa. That's the language pool to fish in. Good luck. Please tell Maphist what you find out? Paul Boyd ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f From: "tony campbell" To: "*MapHist" Subject: [MapHist] Nico Israel Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2002 12:17:58 +0100 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714
I have just had the following sad news.
 
Nico Israel died last Thurdsay (April 4th).  His cremation will take place in Amsterdam this Wednesday (April 10th) at 11.00 a.m.
Full tributes will follow later but Nico will be known to many MapHist members as a major force in the international antiquarian book and atlas world; as the publisher of the Theatrum Orbis Terrarum series of facsimile atlases and the Acta Cartographica article reprints; and for many years as the publisher of Imago Mundi.  In 1989, on his 70th birthday, a Liber Amicorum was prepared and presented to him. 
 
Tony Campbell
 X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2002 09:16:27 -0700 To: maphist@geog.uu.nl From: Len Berggren Subject: Re: [MapHist] processes of medieval cartography- help for student Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 Re: [MapHist] processes of medieval cartography- help
Dear Maphist:
Jessica might want to consult Ptolemy's Geography: An annotated translation of the theoretical chapters, by J.L. Berggren and A. Jones (Princeton U. Press, pb. ed'n 2002). Ptolemy's book was, of course, an important source for the cartographers of the Age of Exploration. And it shows how a cartographer lacking even Renaissance instruments (to say nothing of GPS, etc.!) could combine the writings of his predecessors with the scant astronomical data that was available, travellers' reports and the mathematics of the right triangle to construct world maps.
Regards,
Len Berggren
   
Dear Maphist:

Can anyone shed any light on where to point this student  in regard to  "the processes of "medieval" cartography"

Thank you.

Adrianne Wortzel

Delivered-To: camouflagetown.tv%sphinx@camouflagetown.tv
X-UID: Inbox;993244885;13188
X-Received: 7 Apr 2002 17:21:45 GMT
Date: Sun, 7 Apr 2002 10:21:44 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jessica McCarthy <aspiring_writer16@yahoo.com>
To: sphinx@camouflagetown.tv

Good afternoon.  My name is Jessica McCarthy, and I am
doing a research project for my IB Math Studies course
(Many don't know what IB is: it's the toughest courses
available to high schoolers to prepare them for
college.  For more information, please see:
http://www.ibo.org/).  I'm researching how the
cartographers from the Age of Exploration (and even
before that) were able to draw nearly-accurate maps.
I will do a comparison of the medieval method to
today's method of satellites & GPS, etc.  Any
information that you may have on the processes of
"medieval" cartography (i.e.: instructions on drawing
it out by hand - all I've been able to find is that
they used sextants, but no other explanations
whatsoever) is greatly appreciated.
Thank you,
Jessica McCarthy

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax
http://taxes.yahoo.com/

_______________________________________________________________
MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography
hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht.
The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of
the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of
Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for
the views of the author.
List Information: http://www.maphist.nl

--
Prof. J. L. Berggren
Department of Mathematics
Simon Fraser University
8888 University Drive,  Burnaby, B.C. Canada V5A 1S6

Phones:
604-291-3335 (Office); 604-291-4947 (Fax)
604-936-2268 (Home)
 X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f X-Sender: krogt@pop.geog.uu.nl (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Mon, 08 Apr 2002 18:29:55 +0200 To: maphist@geog.uu.nl From: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl (by way of Owner MapHist ) Subject: [MapHist] FYI: New AMICO Distributor: Cartography Associates (David Rumsey) Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 Non-member submission from [Beverly J Presley ] Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2002 12:10:01 -0400 Fellow Cartophiles, I recently learned of this development and thought might be of interest to some of you. If it is old news, my apologies. Beverly Presley Map Library Clark University 950 Main Street Worcester, MA 01610-1477 bpresley@clarku.edu Art Museum Image Consortium www.amico.org Enabling Educational Use of Museum Multimedia AMICO Press Release March 25, 2002 Greater Delivery Choices for The AMICO Library (TM): David Rumsey and AMICO Sign Distribution Agreement Rumsey chooses Luna's Insight software as distribution environment AMICO Headquarters; Pittsburgh, PA - The Art Museum Image Consortium (AMICO) and Cartography Associates, owned by David Rumsey, have signed a distribution agreement to deliver The AMICO Library (TM) for higher education and scholarly use. Cartography Associates, a provider of online digital images of rare 18th and 19th century North and South American cartographic history materials, is the latest in a series of distributors, announced in recent months, making The AMICO Library available at reasonable rates with different functional and interface flexibility. Our objective is to make The AMICO Library widely available for a variety of user types, from small art institutes to large public library systems, K-12 schools to state universities, and to provide users with a choice of service providers so they may select one that particularly suits their unique needs. For its presentation of The AMICO Library, Cartography Associates has chosen Luna Imaging's Insight software as the delivery platform. The collection will be available for the Fall 2002 term to educators and scholars within institutions, as well as for individual unaffiliated scholars, for an annual subscription rate. Luna Imaging will provide hosting and customer services for Cartography Associates. As AMICO's Executive Director, Jennifer Trant, notes, "Cartography Associates is a wonderful addition to our growing group of distributors. David Rumsey's existing experience with online image distribution and his alliance with Luna Imaging are of great interest to AMICO. We hope these connections will help build links to and added functionality for a much broader range of scholarly users of The AMICO Library in communities beyond those we currently serve. David Rumsey's vision coordinates well with AMICO's desire to widen and deepen educational use of museum collections through network technologies." The addition of The AMICO Library as the second collection of Cartography Associates supports the vision of David Rumsey to provide a broad range of cultural materials to both educators and scholars and the ability to integrate cultural materials from several disciplines in ways never before achieved for scholarly exploration at the highest level of quality possible using the Internet. "I am pleased to be able to bring this important collection from major museums together with powerful software that I believe in," Rumsey says. "I want to make the availability of The AMICO Library as affordable and as accessible to as many people as possible. My relationship with Luna Imaging will allow us to serve customers by offering an exciting array of software tools for accessing and viewing this outstanding collection of art images." About David Rumsey and Cartography Associates Cartography Associates provides presentation of historical maps and other culturally significant materials for research and education using the Internet. Cartography Associates was founded by map collector David Rumsey in 1996 to provide online distribution of digital images from his private collection of rare 18th and 19th century North and South American maps. The David Rumsey Map Collection, one of the largest private map collections in the United States, numbers over 150,000 maps and includes rare atlases, charts, globes, wall maps and related items. The online collection, currently numbering over 6,500 maps, is a growing cross section of the physical collection and is highly regarded by researchers and the public alike, as evidenced by the thousands of Web site visitors each day to www.davidrumsey.com. Rumsey's site has been featured in Wired Magazine, USA Today, and TechTV and has received numerous Web awards, including Yahoo Pick of the Week, and Best of the Net from About.com For more information regarding the availability of The AMICO Library from Cartography Associates, contact Jennifer Zabriskie at 310 274 8787, ext. 121. About AMICO The Art Museum Image Consortium (AMICO) is a growing, independent non-profit (501c3) corporation. Founded in 1997, the Consortium today is made up of over 35 major museums in the United States, Canada, and the United Kingdom. It's an innovative collaboration - not seen before in museums - that shares, shapes, and standardizes digital information regarding museum collections and enables its educational use. Membership is open to any institution with a collection of art. Together AMICO Members build The AMICO LibraryTM a compilation of multimedia documentation of works in their collections. The 2002 edition of The AMICO Library documents approximately 100,000 different works of art, from prehistoric goddess figures to contemporary installations; new works are added annually. More than simply an image database, AMICO Library works are fully documented and may include curatorial text, detailed provenance information, multiple views, and other related multimedia. Subscribers find The AMICO Library valuable because it combines the immediacy and accessibility of the Web with the persistence and academic weight of traditional library reference sources. The AMICO Library is accessible over secure networks to licensed subscribers such as universities, colleges, libraries, schools, and museums. Over 3 million users on four continents include faculty, students, teachers, staff, researchers, and public library patrons. Educational subscribers receive access to The AMICO Library through one of our Distributors. A subscription to The AMICO Library provides rights to use works for a broad range of educational purposes. Potential subscribers may preview a Thumbnail Catalog of The AMICO Library, request a free trial from our Distributors, and get further information at http://www.amico.org. Contact Information Jennifer Trant Executive Director Art Museum Image Consortium Phone: +1 412 422 8533 Email: info@amico.org Web: http://www.amico.org _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f X-Sender: maphist@mail.maphist.nl X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Mon, 08 Apr 2002 18:38:31 +0200 To: maphist@geog.uu.nl From: Peter van der Krogt Subject: Re: [MapHist] Nico Israel Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 For those who are able to come to Amsterdam, the cremation will take place at the Crematorium Westgaarde, Ookmeerweg 275, Amsterdam, at 11.00 a.m. on Wednesday 10 April. Peter At 13:17 8-4-2002, you wrote: >I have just had the following sad news. > >Nico Israel died last Thurdsay (April 4th). His cremation will take place >in Amsterdam this Wednesday (April 10th) at 11.00 a.m. >Full tributes will follow later but Nico will be known to many MapHist >members as a major force in the international antiquarian book and atlas >world; as the publisher of the Theatrum Orbis Terrarum series of facsimile >atlases and the Acta Cartographica article reprints; and for many years as >the publisher of Imago Mundi. In 1989, on his 70th birthday, a Liber >Amicorum was prepared and presented to him. > >Tony Campbell >t.campbell@ockendon.clara.co.uk YYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY Dr Peter van der Krogt Map Historian, Explokart Research Program Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht P.O. Box 80.115 3508 TC UTRECHT, The Netherlands e-mail: peter@maphist.nl Homepage: MapHist: Genealogy: Elementymology: Columbus Monuments: YYYYYYYYYYYYYYY PER ANGUSTA AD AUGUSTA YYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express Macintosh Edition - 4.5 (0410) Date: Tue, 09 Apr 2002 09:33:07 +0200 Subject: [MapHist] Behaim globe From: "Jean-Pierre MARTIN" To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 Behaim globe Dear Alfredo Marques and other maphisters,


I am grateful to your contribution which mentions the links between Behaim and the Portugese, which are important parameters.

I am also interested with your mention to the iconography of libra connected with Portugese nobles. Could you give some URL or images of this heraldry?

However, I am not convinced by the connection of the Guinea gulf with the Libra. At that time, the Portugese and Spanish preeminence was great leading to the Toledo treaty in 1480, the Inter Caetera pope decision in 1493 and to the Tordesillas treaty in 1494, two years after the Behaim globe.This could be envisaged for the spindle determination which may coincide, but not for the libra position.

I have had the time to look at cartographic materials (in some books), and the Inter Caetera and Tordesillas treaty are probably governing the representation of the maps between 1450 and 1720. Only around 1730 appears the Greenwich origin on britannic maps. I will check (with Cassini France mapping for example)  but it could be similar in France with the french Paris meridian (see the Coronelli globes which are yet with an origin meridian connected approximately with the old partage). Probably specialized maphisters will confirm, but all national meridians are late inventions before the choice of the Greenwich meridian.

It seems that the pope decision in 1493 was indirectly  linked with a kind of origin meridian 30°W approximately which is perhaps related to the Ptolemeus representation (with approximate variable 15°W to 40°W origin on many maps)? For example older maps such as Al Idrisi (1154) originates on the west side at an approximate 15°.
Any maphister can precise the reasons of the 100 leagues choice by the pope in the inter Caetera document? I have no information on the Toledo treatise which was also ruling the partage.

As a matter of fact, coincidence or not, the Greenwhich meridian is approximately 30° from the Inter caetera line, which explains the spindle centered on an approximate Greenwich-London position, but not the position of the Libra on the equator at this meridian. 15° is at an approximate East Canarian Island location (border of the globe spindles C & D). Moreover, later globes (Coronelli in 1686 have the intersection of the ecliptic with the equator on an approximate 25°W meridian, with the opposite choice of Aries according to the representation of the ecliptic, which is all quite coherent).

Alfredo, since you studied the matters in sufficient details, could you precise me if the leagues used in the treaties were spanish "legua" (4179 m) or portugese "legoa" (4651 m)?

By the way, is any Maphister knowing of a full electronic reproduction of the Behaim globe available on the net or better on CD with details?

Jean-Pierre MARTIN


 X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f From: "tony campbell" To: "*MapHist" Subject: [MapHist] Heritage Map Museum Date: Tue, 9 Apr 2002 10:16:11 +0100 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714
I wonder if the list can help me with a contact problem.
 
I run the business side of Imago Mundi: the International Journal for the History of Cartography and have been trying to contact James Hess of the Heritage Map Museum for a number of months, without success.  Four mailings to the address given in his advertisement in the latest Imago Mundi, and two emails to the address given in the January MapHist subscribers list, have all failed to elicit a response.
 
I wonder, therefore, if perhaps the Heritage Map Museum has ceased trading.  If so, I imagine somebody on the list will know.   Alternatively, is the Museum a member of any trade organisation that might be able to advise on how best to make contact?
 
If anybody else has had a similar experience perhaps they could respond to me directly, offlist.
 
Thank you
 
Tony Campbell
Chairman Imago Mundi
****************************************
 
 
Phone: 020 7359 6477  International: +44 20 7359 6477
Web site:  http://ihr.sas.ac.uk/maps/imago.html
*******************************************
 X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f Date: Tue, 09 Apr 2002 08:50:05 -0500 From: Rand Burnette Organization: MacMurray College X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 (Macintosh; I; 68K) To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Subject: Re: [MapHist] processes of medieval cartography- help for student Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 Jessica might also consult Eva G.R. Taylor's The Haven Finding Art (1957?) which is excellent on navigational aids from Homer to Cooke.  Bennett's book on The Divided Circle is also excellent on navigational instruments and how they work.  There are other texts but all my history of cartography books are now at my home.  Hope this information will help Jessica.

Sincerely,

Rand Burnette, Professor of History, MacMurray College, Jacksonville, IL 62650

Len Berggren wrote:

  Dear Maphist:Jessica might want to consult Ptolemy's Geography: An annotated translation of the theoretical chapters, by J.L. Berggren and A. Jones (Princeton U. Press, pb. ed'n 2002). Ptolemy's book was, of course, an important source for the cartographers of the Age of Exploration. And it shows how a cartographer lacking even Renaissance instruments (to say nothing of GPS, etc.!) could combine the writings of his predecessors with the scant astronomical data that was available, travellers' reports and the mathematics of the right triangle to construct world maps.Regards,Len Berggren 
Dear Maphist:

Can anyone shed any light on where to point this student  in regard to  "the processes of "medieval" cartography"

Thank you.

Adrianne Wortzel

Delivered-To: camouflagetown.tv%sphinx@camouflagetown.tv
X-UID: Inbox;993244885;13188
X-Received: 7 Apr 2002 17:21:45 GMT
Date: Sun, 7 Apr 2002 10:21:44 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jessica McCarthy <aspiring_writer16@yahoo.com>
To: sphinx@camouflagetown.tv

Good afternoon.  My name is Jessica McCarthy, and I am
doing a research project for my IB Math Studies course
(Many don't know what IB is: it's the toughest courses
available to high schoolers to prepare them for
college.  For more information, please see:
http://www.ibo.org/).  I'm researching how the
cartographers from the Age of Exploration (and even
before that) were able to draw nearly-accurate maps.
I will do a comparison of the medieval method to
today's method of satellites & GPS, etc.  Any
information that you may have on the processes of
"medieval" cartography (i.e.: instructions on drawing
it out by hand - all I've been able to find is that
they used sextants, but no other explanations
whatsoever) is greatly appreciated.
Thank you,
Jessica McCarthy

__________________________________________________
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_______________________________________________________________
MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography
hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht.
The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of
the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of
Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for
the views of the author.
List Information: http://www.maphist.nl

 --
Prof. J. L. Berggren
Department of Mathematics
Simon Fraser University
8888 University Drive,  Burnaby, B.C. Canada V5A 1S6

Phones:
604-291-3335 (Office); 604-291-4947 (Fax)
604-936-2268 (Home)

  X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f From: "Ronald Whistance-Smith" To: Subject: Re: [MapHist] Heritage Map Museum Date: Tue, 9 Apr 2002 09:56:10 -0600 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714
He's still very much in business Tony.  He was running an on-line map auction which ended last Wednesday.  From the last message he sent prior to the close of the auction:
 
Heritage Map Museum
P.O. Box 412
Lititz, PA 17543 USA
Email: heritage@carto.com
Telephone: 717-626-5002
FAX: 717-626-8858
Ron
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, April 09, 2002 3:16 AM
Subject: [MapHist] Heritage Map Museum

I wonder if the list can help me with a contact problem.
 
I run the business side of Imago Mundi: the International Journal for the History of Cartography and have been trying to contact James Hess of the Heritage Map Museum for a number of months, without success.  Four mailings to the address given in his advertisement in the latest Imago Mundi, and two emails to the address given in the January MapHist subscribers list, have all failed to elicit a response.
 
I wonder, therefore, if perhaps the Heritage Map Museum has ceased trading.  If so, I imagine somebody on the list will know.   Alternatively, is the Museum a member of any trade organisation that might be able to advise on how best to make contact?
 
If anybody else has had a similar experience perhaps they could respond to me directly, offlist.
 
Thank you
 
Tony Campbell
Chairman Imago Mundi
****************************************
 
 
Phone: 020 7359 6477  International: +44 20 7359 6477
Web site:  http://ihr.sas.ac.uk/maps/imago.html
*******************************************
 X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f From: Christopher Baruth Subject: [MapHist] Ehrenberg to give 2002 Holzheimer Lecture To: maphist@geog.uu.nl, maps-l@listserv.uga.edu Date: Tue, 9 Apr 102 15:57:34 -0500 (CDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24alpha3] Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 Ehrenberg to Speak at American Geographical Society Collection The American Geographical Society Collection will hold its annual "Maps and America" lecture, sponsored by Arthur and Janet Holzheimer of Chicago, on Wednesday April 24, 2002. There will be a welcome reception, courtesy of the Friends of the Golda Meir Library, at 5:00 pm. The lecture is at 6:00 pm. The speaker for the event will be Ralph Ehrenberg, the former Chief of the Geography and Map Division of the Library of Congress, who will present a talk entitled "American Aeronautical Charting, with Special Reference to Charles Lindbergh." An exhibit of aeronautial charts, including Lindbergh's own, will be mounted in conjunction with the lecture. Please come and help us celebrate the Lindbergh centennial and the seventy-fifth anniversary of his famous flight! For further information contact the AGS Collection at 1-800-558-8993 or (414) 229-6282, or visit the web site at: http://leardo.lib.uwm.edu/maa02.html Chris Baruth AGS Collection _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f X-Sender: np01hd@mail.telepac.pt Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 01:56:14 +0000 To: maphist@geog.uu.nl From: "Alfredo P. Marques - CEMAR" Subject: Re: [MapHist] Behaim globe Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 6666,3333,0000Dear Jean Pierre Martin et all.: Here I send what I was trying to write (in my poor English) as one quick answer to some questions you mentioned (and in the end it became bigger and bigger...): > I am also interested with your mention to the iconography of libra connected with Portugese nobles. Could you give some URL or images of this heraldry? > 6666,3333,0000Yes. The best is to see the 15th century originals. Today I will send two images of Prince Peter's own tombstone of c.1449 (in the Portuguese monastery of Santa Maria da Vitoria, in Batalha), where we find the symbols of the British Garter, the cross and the 'Hony soit qui mal y pense' motto (for since 1425, when he was at London, he had been made a knight of the Garter), the coat-of-arms of Portugal superimposed to the Scales of Justice (his personal symbol, and symbol of the House of Coimbra which he inaugurated), and the coat-of-arms of his Catalonian wife Isabel de Urgel (the coat-of-arms of Portugal together with the coat-of-arms of Aragon). > > However, I am not convinced by the connection of the Guinea gulf with the Libra. At that time, the Portugese and Spanish preeminence was great leading to the Toledo treaty in 1480, the Inter Caetera pope decision in 1493 and to the Tordesillas treaty in 1494, two years after the Behaim globe.This could be envisaged for the spindle determination which may coincide, but not for the libra position. > 6666,3333,0000If in fact the globe was made around 1492 -- and we all agree it was -- this means that it was made seventeen years after Prince John (heir to the Duke of Coimbra and heir to the Crown of Portugal), later King John II, had been entrusted by his father King Afonso V with the maritime affairs of commerce and discovery in Guinea (1474); forteen years after he began defending that space against Spanish and other rivals trying to get there (1478); thirteen years after he (the Prince, overseas governor of Guinea, etc.) managed to make Portuguese and Castilians sign the Treaty of Alcaçovas-Toledo, putting an end to his father's claims to the Castilian Crown and putting and end to the Castilian's claims to the navigation south of Canaries and until Guinea (1479-1480); twelve years after he (the Prince) ordered any foreign sailor found in Guinea to be severely punished, in a true policy of secrecy under the Treaty's agreament (1480), eleven years after he was formally made King of Portugal (1981 [though in fact he was then already governing for some years, and not only in overseas matters]); ten years after he had sent his 'navigational' men Diogo de Azambuja, Diogo Cao, Bartolomeu Dias, etc, to build the Castelo da Mina (Castle of Elmina) and control the Guinea gold trade and discover further to the south of the Gulf (1482-1484); seven years after he had sent his 'astronomical' men (such as the Jew Master Jose Vizinho, and probably others such as Duarte Pacheco Pereira and Martin Behaim) to mix in-loco with the 'navigational' men, determine latitudes more accurately, and create something new, called Astronomical Navigation (c.1485). Of course I don't think that there was any intended coincidence of Behaim's Libra exact positioning with any astronomical or geographical deed (less of all with some meridian like the future Greenwhich meridian...!). What I meaned to say in my previous posting was that there can be some political significance in the overall positioning of Libra (having a graphic symbol of Scales) being placed at the mouth of the Gulf of Guine which belonged to Prince John since 1474 (and by his navigators and astronomers was being discovered, hidrographically and ASTRONOMICALLY, since 1485). Prince John (1474) later King John (1482), heir of the Duchy of Coimbra (and its Scales...) since 1466. And Behaim was one of these men... a little bit navigator, a little bit astronomer... (and he had a strong sense of heraldic symbolism, as can be seen by the representation of HIS OWN COAT-OF-ARMS in the Globe's depiction of his Azorean island of Faial...). What I say is that possibly there can be some symbolic significance: politically, because of the scales in Coimbra's Duchy coat-of-arms... Speaking about possible symbolism (and now in a much more speculative key note...) who knows if it was not only a kind of political symbolism, but also a kind of astronomical symbolism... because, as we know, later in 15th-16th century, sometimes the pilots and other people referred to the measuring of the Sun's position with a nautical astrolabe as an act of 'measuring the Sun's weight"... ('weighting the Sun', because of the similarity of the astrolabe's reading and suspension in one hand with the act of suspending and reading scales with that same gesture)... These measurings where then (1485-1492) beginning, in that particular region, the Gulf of Guinea, with nautical astrolabes and quadrants. Who knows...? (but this, yes, is too much speculative...) > Probably specialized maphisters will confirm, but all national meridians are late inventions before the choice of the Greenwich meridian. > 6666,3333,0000There were several 'origin meridians', before and after the Tordesillas Treaty, and, post 1494, most of all there were several Tordesillas Portuguese-Spanish partition meridians (several of them... so politically motivated and so differently positioned... and sometimes even disguised as latitude bars, etc.). But, in my view, probably in Behaim's globe (whom we should not forget is prior to the 1494 partition) it is very difficult to prove that there is any meridian (even the one close to the scale bar in the middle of the Atlantic, between Azores and Cipango) with any particular and exact political significance. We must not forget that the 1479-1480 line of partition stipulated by the Portuguese and the Castilians in the Treaty of Alcaçovas-Toledo was not a meridian. It was a partition by latittude (the latitude of Canaries) and not by longitude (the Canaries to the Spanish, the South to the Portuguese). So, if there was a circle, it should have been a paralel and not a meridian. And the Portuguese were in the process, or on the eve, of determining latitude at sea, to navigate with it. As far as longitude was concerned, it was totally impossible to determine with accuracy (by everybody). > Any maphister can precise the reasons of the 100 leagues choice by the pope in the inter Caetera document? 6666,3333,0000It was Christopher Columbus who suggested the 100 leagues to the Spanish Kings Fernando and Isabela, for them to suggest to the Pope (the Spanish Alexander VI, alias Rodrigo Borgia from Valencia...), for him to propose to Portugal and Castille, as a kind of referee, in his inter Caetera document... But the Portuguese King John II refused all these sugestions and the intervention of the biased referee, and that is the reason why the Portuguese and the Spanish had to develop direct negotiations (1493) and later agreed, in the Tordesillas Treaty (1494), to partition by a very different meridian: a meridian 370 leagues west of the Cape Verde islands. The original 100 leagues meridian proposed by the Pope was absolutely silly, and impossible to define... since it was *a meridian 100 leagues west of the Azores or Cape Verde Islands*... and the extreme longitudes of these two archipelagoes are very very far from each other...! Of course, no one could determine longitudes very well at the time, but there were some able not only to determine a lot of latitudes but also to estimate a litle bit of longitudes... The Portuguese not only demanded and got more 270 leagues than expected but also where the ones to corrected the Azores-Cape Verde identification error... Who was more ignorant? Columbus or the Pope? One must conclude that in 1493 the Pope was very very ignorant about geography... (in relation to Columbus erudition and navigational skills, the authors disagree a lot, as we all know... Heaven protect me from entering that discussion now... I will only now mess with the Pope... not with Columbus himself...). > I have no information on the Toledo treatise which was also ruling the partage. > 6666,3333,0000As I wrote before, the 1479-1480 Alcáçovas-Toledo Treaty partitioning was a partition by latitude and not longitude. If it implied any kind of circle it would have been a paralel to the equator, and not a meridian (but in fact no such circle was explicitely defined, in terms similar to what was later to be the 1494 Tordesillas Portuguese-Castilian meridian) FOLOWS IN NEXT MESSAGE 6666,3333,0000Alfredo Pinheiro Marques0000,0000,FFFF ** ** * Centro de Estudos do Mar ******** *** PORTUGAL ** ******** ***** ** ************* * * * * ** ************ ************* **** ****************** * *** ** * ** ** ****************************** ** ** * **** ************************************************************* CEMAR-Centro de Estudos do Mar, Urb. Monfoz, Lote 15, 5º Esq. Buarcos, 3080-238 FIGUEIRA DA FOZ - PORTUGAL. Phone: (351) 233434450, Fax: (351) 233434450. alfmarq.cemar@mail.telepac.pt ************************************************************* 6666,3333,0000Alfredo Pinheiro Marques, Faculdade de Letras, Universidade de Coimbra, 3000-447 COIMBRA - PORTUGAL0000,0000,FFFF. 6666,3333,0000Phone: (351) 2394109900, Fax: (351) 2398367330000,0000,FFFF. 6666,3333,0000alfmarq@ci.uc.pt, Phone Home: (351) 233433258. Visit the Bibliography of the Discoveries at http://www.uc.pt/bd.apm http://alf.ci.uc.pt/fluc/docent/currdoc/alfmarq.htm 6666,3333,0000************************************************ DESIR ****** _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f X-Sender: np01hd@mail.telepac.pt Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 01:56:30 +0000 To: maphist@geog.uu.nl From: "Alfredo P. Marques - CEMAR" Subject: [MapHist] More on Behaim, Tordesillas and the league Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 > Alfredo, since you studied the matters in sufficient details, could you precise me if the leagues used in the treaties were spanish "legua" (4179 m) or portugese "legoa" (4651 m)? > > Jean-Pierre MARTIN 6666,3333,0000I am not an expert on nautical science matters, and less of all an expert on astronomical navigation matters (my true field of specialization is only portolan-charts cartography, and not exactly practical navigation). The last Portuguese expert on nautical science and astronomical navigation was the late Prof. Luis de Albuquerque, my dear teacher and friend, deceased in 1992 (being a mathematicion by training, he was indeed one of the greatest international experts of all times, and his published bibliography shows that clearly). Other good Portuguese experts, with good works published on this, were for instance Com. Fontoura da Costa and, most of all, Adm. Avelino Teixeira da Mota. But here I think that one reference that can be useful to this discussion is to one of the very good works by Com. David Waters. It is WATERS, David W., "Science and Techniques of Navigation in the Renaissance", in Art, Science and History in the Renaissance, Baltimore: The J. Hopkins Press, s.d. [1967] (reed. in National Maritime Museum, Maritime Monographs and Reports, n. 19, 1976, 2 ed. 1980). Com. David W. Waters, from the Greenwhich NMM, whom I still had the honour of meeting, exchange correspondance, and apreciate the joviality for some years, was also a great expert responsible for important contributions to the history of Portuguese and World navigation techniques, and of course his work has the advantage of being in English, and therefore understandable for all those who don't know a language so difficult as the Portuguese. What I can tell you about your question (having to incurr in the risk of being a little bit long...) is what follows. First of all, it seems that, similar to the Castilians, the Portuguese in the past, during the 15th century, used a value of the meridian's degree (in reality c.111 kilometers) of 16 2/3 maritime 'leguas' (something like 96.666 2/3 km, or 66 2/3 Italian miles), each Portuguese 'legua' having four Italian miles (of 1480 meters each). The value of the Portuguese 'legua' was therefore 5920 meters (and not quite 4651, as you wrote, certainly by mistake, possibly thinking in any other kind of 'legua' diferent from the 'legua maritima' [maritime legua]). This first Portuguese 'legua' used during the 15th century measured therefore 3.197 modern miles (of 1852 meters). The first, and most known, example of the measure of the meridian's degree as 16 2/3 maritime 'leguas' is for the first time explicitely documented only in the famous Book of Seamanship said to be by João de Lisboa (first or second decade of the 16th century) and continued to be documented in other Portuguese authors such as Francisco Faleiro in 1535 or Pedro Nunes in 1566, althought no one doubts that it cames from the beginnings of the 15th. But what seems to have happened is that the Portuguese, while navigating in the Gulf of Guinea and beyond, in the 80's of the 15th century (the time of King John II, Diogo de Azambuja, Diogo Cao, Master Jose Vizinho, Duarte Pacheco Pereira, Martin Behaim, etc....) noticed that the value of the meridian's degree as 16 2/3 maritime 'leguas' was too short and didn't corresponded to reality, and therefore in many cases many Portuguese pilots, captains and makers of charts began to substitute that by a more close to reality (though not exactly close to reality...) value of 17 1/2 maritime 'leguas'. As Com. Waters tels us in page 10 of the work quoted above (and I will now quote from him, since his knowledge of nautical affairs, and the English language, is far better than mine...): *Once Cape Verde is passed, the coast begins to trend to the southeast, finally running east for hundreds of miles to form the coast of Guinea. From here, therefore, navigation by 'altura' began to brake down; moreover experience had already probably begun to show that the length of a degree had been underestimated. A length of 17 1/2 leagues of 4 miles to a league was in use among most pilots by the sixteenth century and had probably been introduced by the 1480's. Now navigation by 'altura' was to be superseded by the universally applicable and more accurate navigation of 'running down the latitude'. 'Latitude sailing' was, in fact, with but few later refinements, to become and remain for 300 years the chief method of oceanic navigation* and in page 11 he tells us: *their experience of altitude sailing must have shown them that 16 2/3 leagues was too little to allow on the meridian for a change of 1 degree of latitude, and there is cartographical evidence to suggest that from 1485 the African coast began to be more correctly delineated* (end of Com. Water's quotations). Indeed one brilliant example of the use of this Portuguese value of the degree as 17 1/2 is shown in the anonymous Portuguese planisphere of 1502 known as 'Cantino planisphere' (1502), and therefore anybody can see, even with a naked eye, that it is a overall very much accurate representation of the globe (in fact, there are those who say that it is the first true planisphere of the History of Cartography). And some Portuguese pilots and technicians went even further, and got even more close to the real value of the meridians degree (c.111 kilometers)...! That was the case of Duarte Pacheco Pereira in his famous rutter called 'Esmeraldo de Situ Orbis' (c.1507) who gave a value of 18 leagues for a degree...! Com. Fontoura da Costa in his book 'A Marinharia dos Descobrimentos' tell us that a degree with 17 1/2 leagues means that it has 103.600 km, and a degree with 18 leagues means that is has 106.560 km. This last value, in relation to the real 111.000 of the Earth's meridian, represents something like an error of only 4 %. So, this means, in the end, that the Portuguese pilots and captains (measuring 5920 meters the Portuguese maritime 'leguas') by the last decades of the 15th century in same cases still used a value of the meridian's degree as 16 2/3 maritime 'leguas' (something like 96.666 2/3 km), or even, in many other cases, post 1485 (such as in 1492, in the eve of the making of Behaim's globe) more probably used a value of 17 1/2 leagues (something like 103.600 km). And who knows if some of them even went already by that time to the point of using a value of 18 leagues (something like 106.560 km)...? Remember that Duarte Pacheco Pereira, who later wrote that most accurate value in his book of c.1507, had been, some yers before, one of these King John's men, together with Martin Behaim, in the Gulf of Guinea, and, soon after, in 1494, he was himself present as a Portuguese witness to the signing of the Tordesillas Treaty...! He was the only man who had been, at the same time, in the Gulf of Guinea and in the signing of the Tordesillas Treaty... He was an operational, one of those who had had his feet on the ground, or better saying, the water... (and in the Portuguese side he was not the only one... for even the Portuguese main ambassador send in 1994 to sign the Treaty in Castille, Rui de Sousa, was a man who had navigated in 1490 to the black Kingdom of Congo, as a portuguese envoy). Now, in the end (at last...), to answer directly to your question: Which leagues were used in the treaties (Alcáçovas-Toledo, 1479-1480 and Tordesillas 1494)..? Spanish leguas or Portuguese leguas ("legoas")? I suspect that each part used his own leguas... and each one was thinking in his own terms... but one of them was able not only to determine a lot of latitudes but also to estimate (better) a litle bit of longitudes... The truth is that no such a definition was previously demanded by the two parts. If we read the texts, we see that they only speak of leagues. Both the Portuguese version of the Treaty, now kept in Seville in the Archivo de Indias, and the Spanish version, now kept in Lisbon in the Arquivo Nacional - Torre do Tombo, mention leagues, and say something like *(...) a straight line be made in the Ocean Sea, from pole to pole (...) three hundred and seventy leagues from the islands of Cape Verde to the west part, BY DEGREES OR BY OTHER WAY AS IT WILL BE MORE EASILY AND QUICKLY DONE (...)*. The Portuguese and Spanish texts of the Tordesillas Treaty have been published a lot of times. You can find a good transcription for instance in MARQUES, João Martins da Silva (ed.), Descobrimentos Portugueses. Documentos para a sua História, vol.III (1461-1500), Lisbon: Instituto de Alta Cultura, 1971 (facsim. reed. Lisbon: Instituto Nacional de Investigação Científica, 1988). See the Portuguese mention in page 436 and the Spanish mention in page 442. A little bit later, both texts deal with the Portuguese-Castilian joint naval expedition that should be sent to determine the Line's location, in the middle of the waters of the Atlantic... and then they say something like: (...) THE SAID THREE HUNDRED AND SEVENTY MILES BE MEASURED IN THE WAY THAT WILL BE AGREED BY THE PEOPLE SENT TO MEASURE IT (...) AND A POINT AND LINE BE DEFINED BY DEGREES OF THE SUN OR OF THE NORTH, OR BY WAY OF LEAGUES, OR BY OTHER WAY THAT CAN BE AGREED (...). And probably that Portuguese-Spanish joint naval expedition never set sail...! The truth is nobody defined it previously... But each one was thinking in his own measures... > By the way, is any Maphister knowing of a full electronic reproduction of the Behaim globe available on the net or better on CD with details? > > Jean-Pierre MARTIN 6666,3333,0000Yes. You can find wonderful images of the Behaim globe in http://www.ipf.tuwien.ac.at/veroeffentlichungen/ld and also some other useful images in http://www.henry-davis.com/MAPS/LMwebpages/258html. This message (two messages) turned to be a little bit long... (the issue... Tordesillas, Behaim, Columbus, the Pope, measures between Portuguese and Spanish... didn't deserve less...). I think probably for a certain time I will now have to be away from the MapHist forum and deal with other important things... Hope that this contribution can be useful. With all best wishes for everybody's future researchs and discussions 6666,3333,0000Alfredo Pinheiro Marques0000,0000,FFFF ** ** * Centro de Estudos do Mar ******** *** PORTUGAL ** ******** ***** ** ************* * * * * ** ************ ************* **** ****************** * *** ** * ** ** ****************************** ** ** * **** ************************************************************* CEMAR-Centro de Estudos do Mar, Urb. Monfoz, Lote 15, 5º Esq. Buarcos, 3080-238 FIGUEIRA DA FOZ - PORTUGAL. Phone: (351) 233434450, Fax: (351) 233434450. alfmarq.cemar@mail.telepac.pt ************************************************************* 6666,3333,0000Alfredo Pinheiro Marques, Faculdade de Letras, Universidade de Coimbra, 3000-447 COIMBRA - PORTUGAL0000,0000,FFFF. 6666,3333,0000Phone: (351) 2394109900, Fax: (351) 2398367330000,0000,FFFF. 6666,3333,0000alfmarq@ci.uc.pt, Phone Home: (351) 233433258. Visit the Bibliography of the Discoveries at http://www.uc.pt/bd.apm http://alf.ci.uc.pt/fluc/docent/currdoc/alfmarq.htm 6666,3333,0000************************************************ DESIR ****** _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f X-Sender: np01hd@mail.telepac.pt Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 01:56:45 +0000 To: maphist@geog.uu.nl From: "Alfredo P. Marques - CEMAR" Subject: [MapHist] and bibliography on all this Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 6666,3333,0000of course bibliography on these matters can be found in my Bibliography of the Discoveries at http://www.uc.pt/bd.apm, namely in its sections: E.IV.A.1. General Views of Portuguese Nautical Science E.IV.A.2. The Portuguese Creation and Development of Astronomical Navigation E.IV.A.2.1. The Supposed German Influence on Portuguese Nautical Science E.IV.A.2.2. Iberian Astrology / Astronomy in the 14th-15th-16th C. E.IV.A.4. Astronomical and Nautical Instruments in Portugal E.IV.A.4.1. The Compass Needle in Portugal (and the Problem of Longitude) E.IV.A.4.2. The Mariner´s Astrolabe and its Use in Portugal E.IV.A.4.3. The Mariner´s Quadrant and its Use in Portugal E.IV.A.5. Nautical Literature in Portugal E.IV.A.5.1. Portuguese Nautical Guides and Astronomical Regiments ("Guias Náuticos") E.IV.A.5.2. Portuguese "Books of Seamanship" ("Livros de Marinharia") E.IV.A.5.3. Portuguese Rutters ("Roteiros") and "Artes de Navegar" E.IV.A.6. Portuguese Routes and Scales (Nautical Aspects) E.IV.A.7. Pilots and Pilotage in Portugal E.IV.B.1. General Views of Portuguese Cartography E.IV.B.4. The Tordesillas Meridian and Political Aspects of Portuguese Cartography E.IV.E.1. Experience and Science in Portugal E.IV.E.1.1. Duarte Pacheco Pereira and his Work 6666,3333,0000but very important can be especially these references: ALBUQUERQUE, Luís de, Curso de História da Náutica, 2 ed., Coimbra: Livraria Almedina, 1972 (1 ed. Rio de Janeiro: Serviço de Documentação da Marinha Brasileira, 1971). ALBUQUERQUE, Luís de, "A Navegação Astronómica", in CORTESÃO, Armando, História da Cartografia Portuguesa, vol. II, Coimbra: AECA, 1970, 225-371 (reed. in Estudos de História, vol. III, Coimbra: BGUC, 1975; facsim. reed. Lisboa, CNCDP, 1988). ALBUQUERQUE, Luís de, "Estudo Crítico (As Duas Versões do Guia Náutico; Breve História das Regras de Astronomia Náutica; A Tradução do ´Tratado da Esfera´)", in ALBUQUERQUE, Luís de (ed.), Os Guias Náuticos de Munique e Évora, Lisboa: JIU, 1965, 7-125. COSTA, A. Fontoura da, A Marinharia dos Descobrimentos, 4 ed., Lisboa: Edições Culturais da Marinha, 1983 (3 ed. Lisboa: AGU, 1960). MOTA, A. Teixeira da, "L´Art de Naviguer en Mediterranée du XIV au XVII Siècle et la Création de la Navigation Astronomique dans les Océans", in Le Navire et l´Économie Maritime du Moyen Âge au XVIII Siècle, Principalement en Méditerranée (Deuxième Colloque International d´Histoire Maritime), Paris: SEVPEN, 1958, 127-154. 6666,3333,0000and, of course, the quoted WATERS, David W., "Science and Techniques of Navigation in the Renaissance", in Art, Science and History in the Renaissance, Baltimore: The J. Hopkins Press, s.d. [1967] (reed. in National Maritime Museum, Maritime Monographs and Reports, n. 19, 1976, 2 ed. 1980). 6666,3333,0000Alfredo Pinheiro Marques0000,0000,FFFF ** ** * Centro de Estudos do Mar ******** *** PORTUGAL ** ******** ***** ** ************* * * * * ** ************ ************* **** ****************** * *** ** * ** ** ****************************** ** ** * **** ************************************************************* CEMAR-Centro de Estudos do Mar, Urb. Monfoz, Lote 15, 5º Esq. Buarcos, 3080-238 FIGUEIRA DA FOZ - PORTUGAL. Phone: (351) 233434450, Fax: (351) 233434450. alfmarq.cemar@mail.telepac.pt ************************************************************* 6666,3333,0000Alfredo Pinheiro Marques, Faculdade de Letras, Universidade de Coimbra, 3000-447 COIMBRA - PORTUGAL0000,0000,FFFF. 6666,3333,0000Phone: (351) 2394109900, Fax: (351) 2398367330000,0000,FFFF. 6666,3333,0000alfmarq@ci.uc.pt, Phone Home: (351) 233433258. Visit the Bibliography of the Discoveries at http://www.uc.pt/bd.apm http://alf.ci.uc.pt/fluc/docent/currdoc/alfmarq.htm 6666,3333,0000************************************************ DESIR ****** _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f X-Sender: maphist@mail.maphist.nl X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 09:03:06 +0200 To: maphist@geog.uu.nl From: List-owner MapHist Subject: Re: [MapHist] Behaim globe Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 >Yes. The best is to see the 15th century originals. Today I will send two >images of Prince Peter's own tombstone of c.1449 (in the Portuguese >monastery of Santa Maria da Vitoria, in Batalha), where we find the >symbols of the British Garter, the cross and the 'Hony soit qui mal y >pense' motto (for since 1425, when he was at London, he had been made a >knight of the Garter), the coat-of-arms of Portugal superimposed to the >Scales of Justice (his personal symbol, and symbol of the House of Coimbra >which he inaugurated), and the coat-of-arms of his Catalonian wife Isabel >de Urgel (the coat-of-arms of Portugal together with the coat-of-arms of >Aragon). The illustrations are on http://www.maphist.nl/illustr.html Peter van der Krogt List-owner MapHist List-info: http://www.maphist.nl _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f X-Sender: palsky@mailhost.univ-paris12.fr X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 16:35:39 +0200 To: maphist@geog.uu.nl From: Palsky Subject: [MapHist] hypsometric colors X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by pop.geog.uu.nl id QAA21704 Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 Dear Maphisters Except from Ingrid Kretschmer's article in Cartographica Helvetica (2000), does anybody know any reference about the history of hypsometric colors in the nineteenth century. (Were there discussions, national or international, about their choice ? where did the tradition -yellow-green-brown-white- come from...?) Thank you ****************************************************************************** Gilles Palsky Universite de Paris XII-Val de Marne Departement de Geographie 61 av. du General de Gaulle 94010 Creteil cedex (France) tél. : 01 45 17 11 85 Fax : 01 45 17 11 85 Epistemologie et Histoire de la Geographie UMR 8504 CNRS - Paris I - Paris VII 13 rue du Four 75006 Paris tél : 01 43 54 07 06 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 5.5.2 Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 11:09:49 -0400 From: "Tammy Hannibal" To: Subject: [MapHist] carticle X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by pop.geog.uu.nl id RAA24108 Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 Hello everyone, I "found" an article that may be of interest to the group: "Maps on the Cusp of Change" by Louis Werner, in _Americas_ , April 2002, pp. 38-45. I haven't had an opportunity to have more than a quick read, but it relates to 16th century Spanish New World Cartography, and draws a great deal on the recently published _The Mapping of New Spain: Indigenous Cartography and the Maps of the Relaciones Geograficas_ by Barbara Mundy (©.2000) FYI, anyways.... Tammy Hannibal Land Entitlement and Claims Implementation - Manitoba Region Indian and Northern Affairs Canada hannibalt@inac.gc.ca _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f X-Sender: maphist@mail.maphist.nl (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 19:39:53 +0200 To: maphist@geog.uu.nl From: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl (by way of List-owner MapHist ) Subject: [MapHist] Seeking an image of Jansson's Map of Russia Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 Non-member submission from ["James Roy" ] Dear Maphisters and Maptraders,=20 I'm wondering if anyone can show me on the web, (or, dare I ask send = me,) a nice, clean image of the Hondius/Jansson Novissima Russiae = Tabula. Not the incomplete 1636 issue, but a later one with a completed = cartouche.=20 Googling has not produced a usable image as of yet.=20 Any ideas? Any help would be appreciated.=20 James W. Roy Martayan Lan=20 _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 5.5.2 Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 08:52:11 +0200 From: "Jan Smits" To: Subject: Betr.: [MapHist] hypsometric colors X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by pop.geog.uu.nl id IAA13240 Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 Dear Gilles, The convention to use green for lowland and brown for highland was instituted by Emil von Sydow [1812-1873] in the 1830's. First for maps he sketched himself as member of the Prussian military staff, later for a series of wallmaps for the firm Justus Perthes. The engravers J.Ch. Bär and Friedrich von Stülpnagel drew the grid, the coasts and the river contours, while Sydow used his brush to paint in his plastic forms for relief representation, creating his colour scheme of green for lowlands and brown for highlands. This co-operation led to the publication of his wall-atlas , highly regarded by Ritter, which contained only 7 maps -continental maps, the world, Germany (1847) and Australia (1856)- of the 24 planned . Soon this colouring also found its way into the schoolatlases of the same firm. Later yellow was used as an intermediate colour, while Hermann Haack [1872-1966) extended the range with red for the highest mountain ranges, except for the ever-white areas. See further: Schattenplastik und Farbenplastik : Beiträge zur Theorie der Geländedarstellung / Karl Peucker. - Wien, 1898. - (Kartographische Studien ; I.). With kind regards, Jan Smits Jan Smits Koninklijke Bibliotheek, National Library of The Netherlands P.O. Box 90.407 NL-2509 LK Den Haag The Netherlands tel: +31 70 3140241 fax: +31 70 3140450 E-mail: jan.smits@kb.nl E-mail: skd@python.kb.nl (when the above does not function) President Groupe des Cartothecaires de LIBER (GdC, European Map Curators Group) Chairman Working Group for Mapcuratorship, Dutch Cartographic Society (NVK) IFLA Representative for the ICA Spatial Data Standards Commission Secretary Dutch Commision for Cataloguing & Indexing FOBID (Federation of Organizations working in the Library-, Information-, and Documentation-field) WWW-maps: http://www.kb.nl/kb/skd/karto-en.html WWW-GdC: http://www.kb.nl/infolev/liber/intro.htm WWW-personal: http://www.kb.nl/persons/jan-smits/homepage.htm Na matheis kai na matheis ap'tous spoudasmenous (To learn and again to learn from those who know) >>> palsky@UNIV-PARIS12.FR 10-04-02 16:35 >>> Dear Maphisters Except from Ingrid Kretschmer's article in Cartographica Helvetica (2000), does anybody know any reference about the history of hypsometric colors in the nineteenth century. (Were there discussions, national or international, about their choice ? where did the tradition -yellow-green-brown-white- come from...?) Thank you ****************************************************************************** Gilles Palsky Universite de Paris XII-Val de Marne Departement de Geographie 61 av. du General de Gaulle 94010 Creteil cedex (France) tél. : 01 45 17 11 85 Fax : 01 45 17 11 85 Epistemologie et Histoire de la Geographie UMR 8504 CNRS - Paris I - Paris VII 13 rue du Four 75006 Paris tél : 01 43 54 07 06 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f X-Sender: krogt@pop.geog.uu.nl X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 10:42:21 +0200 To: maphist@geog.uu.nl From: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl (by way of Peter van der Krogt ) Subject: Re: [MapHist] carticle X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by pop.geog.uu.nl id KAA23224 Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 Non-member submission from ["Jens P. Bornholt" ] Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 17:15:00 -0500 thanks for the info. Do you think you could post the whole article, for the benefit of those who live in the ex Spanish colonies and who do not have access to that magazine? regards, Jens P.Bornholt, Guatemala ----- Original Message ----- From: Tammy Hannibal To: Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2002 10:09 AM Subject: [MapHist] carticle Hello everyone, I "found" an article that may be of interest to the group: "Maps on the Cusp of Change" by Louis Werner, in _Americas_ , April 2002, pp. 38-45. I haven't had an opportunity to have more than a quick read, but it relates to 16th century Spanish New World Cartography, and draws a great deal on the recently published _The Mapping of New Spain: Indigenous Cartography and the Maps of the Relaciones Geograficas_ by Barbara Mundy (©.2000) FYI, anyways.... Tammy Hannibal Land Entitlement and Claims Implementation - Manitoba Region Indian and Northern Affairs Canada hannibalt@inac.gc.ca _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f From: "V+R Mayer" To: Subject: Re: [MapHist] carticle Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 11:19:36 -0500 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 I second the motion! I would very much appreciate getting the article by any means, e-mail, fax, snail mail, whatever. Roberto L. Mayer Baltimore 111-1801 03720 México, D. F. MEXICO ryvmayer@internet.com.mx FAX +52.55.5615-1450 ----- Original Message ----- From: "by way of Peter van der Krogt " To: Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2002 3:42 AM Subject: Re: [MapHist] carticle Non-member submission from ["Jens P. Bornholt" ] Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 17:15:00 -0500 thanks for the info. Do you think you could post the whole article, for the benefit of those who live in the ex Spanish colonies and who do not have access to that magazine? regards, Jens P.Bornholt, Guatemala ----- Original Message ----- From: Tammy Hannibal To: Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2002 10:09 AM Subject: [MapHist] carticle Hello everyone, I "found" an article that may be of interest to the group: "Maps on the Cusp of Change" by Louis Werner, in _Americas_ , April 2002, pp. 38-45. I haven't had an opportunity to have more than a quick read, but it relates to 16th century Spanish New World Cartography, and draws a great deal on the recently published _The Mapping of New Spain: Indigenous Cartography and the Maps of the Relaciones Geograficas_ by Barbara Mundy (©.2000) FYI, anyways.... Tammy Hannibal Land Entitlement and Claims Implementation - Manitoba Region Indian and Northern Affairs Canada hannibalt@inac.gc.ca _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 5.5.2 Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 15:03:26 -0400 From: "Tammy Hannibal" To: Subject: Re: [MapHist] carticle X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by pop.geog.uu.nl id VAA07241 Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 The magazine may be reached via e-mail at AmericasMagazine@oas.org According to their notes, Articles may be reprinted with permission, so perhaps we can arrange to have the copy posted for us.... Tammy >>> owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl 04/11/02 03:42AM >>> Non-member submission from ["Jens P. Bornholt" ] Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 17:15:00 -0500 thanks for the info. Do you think you could post the whole article, for the benefit of those who live in the ex Spanish colonies and who do not have access to that magazine? regards, Jens P.Bornholt, Guatemala ----- _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f From: "Todd Helt" To: Subject: [MapHist] New Internet GIS for Israel, West Bank, Gaza, and neighboring countries Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 15:15:12 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 We thought some of you may interested in a new public access web mapping site we have deployed for Israel, West Bank, Gaza, and neighboring countries. http://www.telemorphic.com/israel.htm We decided to build this web mapping site following the overwhelming success of a similar public access Internet GIS and satellite image visualization service which we deployed last year for Afghanistan and vicinity (http://www.telemorphic.com/afghan.htm). To build the site, we integrated public domain geospatial data from various US Government agencies (USGS, NIMA, NASA) to create a standard ArcIMS map service, and then use our lightweight Java-based Maplicity products to deliver a unique interactive mapping and image visualization experience to Web browser-based users. The GIS layers available include hillshaded relief derived from USGS GTOPO30 data, vectors from NIMA VMap0 data, and satellite imagery from NASA Landsat TM data. Maplicity adds a complete desktop GIS-like presentation to ArcIMS map services, including full-featured GIS and image analysis/visualization tools in a lightweight Java applet (~330kb) operating in an ubiquitous Web browser and OS independent environment (IE, Netscape, AOL on Windows, Unix, Linux, and MacOS-X as well). Site visitors can easily and conveniently create and print custom maps using the Maplicity graphics and annotation markup tools as well as create and save custom image products (with world file for georeferencing info). You can also easily download any of the vectors datasets as shape files. We hope you find this on-line mapping site useful, and as always would appreciate your feedback. Best regards, Todd ---------------------------------------------- Todd F. Helt President Telemorphic, Incorporated 748 Gilman Street Berkeley, CA 94710-1327 Ph: (510) 527-8343 Fax: (510) 527-8364 toddh@telemorphic.com www.telemorphic.com To unsubscribe, write to gislist-unsubscribe@geocomm.com ________________________________________________________________________ Setup a GeoCommunity Account and have access to FAST DataDownloads and Premium Career Posting at a discounted rate! https://www.geocomm.com/cgi-bin/accounts/login On-line Archives available at http://spatialnews.geocomm.com/community/lists/ _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f From: MKBabinski@aol.com Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 20:34:44 EDT Subject: [MapHist] National Geographic on Mason & Dixon To: maphist@geog.uu.nl X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 259 Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 Dear MapHisters,

What a coincidence - National Geographic just put out a story on the Mason-Dixon line, the map of which sold on March 27, 2002 at Christie's NY. See:

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2002/04/0410_020410_TVmasondixon.html

Mark X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f X-Sender: maphist@mail.maphist.nl X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 09:19:58 +0200 To: maphist@geog.uu.nl From: Peter van der Krogt Subject: [MapHist] Portuguese ms atlas of South America (16th century) Cc: ronvanmeer@intelnet.net.gt X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by pop.geog.uu.nl id JAA23437 Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 [This question I send to the list on behalf of Ron van Meer in Guatemala City. I will forward the answers to him. Peter] Dear List-members: While going through an inventory list of the private library of the Mexican doctor and politician, Manuel Ortega Reyes (Oaxaca 1819 - Mexico City 1908), I came across an interesting description of what seems to be a early manuscript/book or atlas of South America, apparently dating from the 16th century. The description from the inventory list provides some additional information on both form and contents of this manuscript/book. It also transcribes what appear to be glosses added by former owners. Two glosses are in Latin, one in French. The original Spanish description in the inventory list is as follows: I. Libro de pasta de madera roja, forrada con cuero curtido en el que hay adornos de lises y castillos dorados. El libro es de papel sin cola, pliego caracteristico del siglo XVI, al principio y al fin; pues toda la parte central luminosa, es de folios apaisados de pergamino con imprimacion blanca, sobre la que se ha pintado y escrito a mano gran cantidad de mapas de paises y costas de la America del Sur. ofrece de caracteristico la pintura de una Virgen de los Paises Bajos, muy semejante a la de Guadalupe de esta ciudad. Tiene tablas de situacion de lugares y de costas, altura de astros etc. Parece obra de un marino. En la primera foja vuelta se lee, ms. " Ad Vsum mei Florentis de Agudo & Rivs". Al frente "Relacion General de las Leguas que tiene de largo toda la tierra que llaman comunmente el Piru, desde el puerto y ciudad de Cartajena, hasta el de Buenos Aires. A la vuelta y al frente: "Jus jurando quod jurabit" Ce Libre il me semble qui a ete ecritte dans ce annee 1582 Phelipeaus Rubrica. Es un precioso codice para la historia de America. The English translation of this Spanish text goes as follows: I. Book with a binding of red wood, cover of tanned leather with decorations of golden lilies and castles. The book consists of paper without glue, sheets of paper folded in two, characteristic for the 16th century, at the beginning and the end; the central part consists of brilliant/bright folios of parchment with a white primer (the folios are wider than higher) which carry a great number of maps of countries and coasts of South America, both painted and drawn by hand. Noteworthy is the painting/depiction of the Virgin of the Netherlands, very similar to the Virgin of Guadeloupe of this city (= Mexico City). The book contains tables with indications of the location of places, coasts and the height of the stars etc. It seems to be the work of a seaman. At the back of the first folio there is a handwritten text, Ad Vsum mei Florentis de Agudo & Rivs (= For my use Florentis de Agudo & Rivs). Ce Libre il me semble qui a ete ecritte dans ce annee 1582 Phelipeaus Rubrica (= To me it seems that this book was written in this year of 1582 Phelipeaus Signature). Facing it there is a general summary of the miles of the earth which they call Piru (= Peru) from the harbour of the city of Cartajena till that of Buenos Aires. At the reverse side of the next folio, opposite: Jus jurando quod jurabit". It is a valuable codex/manuscript for the history of America. Another, very brief description of the same manuscript, provides the following additional information: Portulano dibujado en hojas de pergamino, á oro y colores. Describe el Perú y las demás partes del mundo, de origen portugués. Or, in translation: Book with harbour maps, drawn on parchment sheets, in gold and other colors. Describes Peru and the other parts of the world. Of Portuguese origin. I am very much interested to learn if the above mentioned book can be recognized by anyone subscribed to this list. If not, do the glosses provide any clues to the original author or history of this book? Are there similar manuscripts or books known with maps pertaining to the 16th century which a similar contents as that of the book described here and of possible Portuguese origin? Thank you very much, _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express Macintosh Edition - 4.5 (0410) Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 11:18:11 +0200 Subject: Re : [MapHist] Behaim globe From: "Jean-Pierre MARTIN" To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 Re : [MapHist] Behaim globe Dear Alfredo and maphisters,

I have only to say: Thank you for these informations.

By the way, concerning the historical metrology for which you have given an expert answer, I have a request to do to maphisters and webmaster, to try to introduce an open data basis on map units where comments could be made. Historical metrology is a very difficult field to introduce in all the historical meanders, and I think an updated reference could be interesting.

For myself, the figures given for the leagues were from the work of Cardarelli book which is sufficiently wide and synthetic to have a first grasp on the subject, but may be misleading at it seems to be the case, when  datation, exact source reference (if possibly with URL...) are not given. So a general base, annotated with local experts reading source languages could give sufficient information for researchers and enlightened amateurs.

Gratefully and dreaming...


Jean-Pierre MARTIN X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f From: Markus.Oehrli@LT.ADMIN.CH To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Subject: [MapHist] Death of Georges Grosjean Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 15:36:30 +0200 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by pop.geog.uu.nl id PAA21008 Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 Dear Maphist fellows Professor Georges Grosjean, a leading Swiss geographer and map historian, died on 8 April after a long illness. His numerous publications include editions of the 1375 Catalan Atlas and of a Atlas by Vesconte Maggiolo. An obituary with bibliography will be published in the July issue of 'Cartographica Helvetica'. For details of his funeral see http://www.stub.unibe.ch/dach/ch/index.html Yours sincerely, Markus Oehrli ****************************************************************** Bundesamt für Landestopographie - Swiss Federal Office of Topography Thematische Kartografie - Thematic Cartography Seftigenstrasse 264 Postfach CH-3084 Wabern ********************************************** Tel: ++41-31 963 24 64 (CH: 031 963 24 64) Fax: ++41-31 963 24 59 (CH: 031 963 24 59) E-Mail: Web: ****************************************************************** _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl From: ahudson@nypl.org Subject: Re: [MapHist] National Geographic on Mason & Dixon To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Cc: maphist@geog.uu.nl, owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Release 5.0.4 June 8, 2000 Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 11:17:34 -0400 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on MHTMAIL02/MHT/Nypl(Release 5.0.8 |June 18, 2001) at 04/12/2002 11:18:07 AM X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 That is sort of like the coincidences we will see in the next couple of years of lots of Lewis & Clark materials all of a sudden appearing on the market? Alice C. Hudson Chief, Map Division The Humanities and Social Sciences Library The New York Public Library 5th Avenue & 42nd Street, Room 117 New York, NY 10018-2788 ahudson@nypl.org; 212-930-0589; fax 212-930-0027 http://nypl.org/research/chss/map/map.html MKBabinski@aol .com To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Sent by: cc: owner-maphist@ Subject: [MapHist] National Geographic on geog.uu.nl Mason & Dixon 04/11/2002 08:34 PM Please respond to maphist Dear MapHisters, What a coincidence - National Geographic just put out a story on the Mason-Dixon line, the map of which sold on March 27, 2002 at Christie's NY. See: http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2002/04/0410_020410_TVmasondixon.html Mark X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f X-Sender: maphist@mail.maphist.nl (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2002 09:51:47 +0200 To: maphist@geog.uu.nl From: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl (by way of List-owner MapHist ) Subject: [MapHist] article "Americas" Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 Non-member submission from ["Jens P. Bornholt" ] Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 17:39:04 -0500 Fellow MapHists: I am forwarding this message, for the benefit of anybody who might be interested. regards, Jens P.Bornholt ----- Original Message ----- From: Americas Magazine To: 'Jens P. Bornholt' Sent: Friday, April 12, 2002 1:22 PM Subject: RE: maps > Dear Mr. Bornholt, > > Unfortunately, we do not post articles on the internet. However, we have > copies available for sale, for US$5.00, which include shipping and handling. > If you are interested in purchasing a copy (please specify English or > Spanish), please send a check made out to Americas MAgazine, to the > following address: > > Americas Magazine > Organization of American States > 19th Street and Constitution Avenue NW > 3rd floor > Washington, DC 20006 > > Thank you for your interest in Americas Magazine. > > Best wishes, > > Mercedes Estevez > > -----Original Message----- > From: Jens P. Bornholt [mailto:borncafe@terra.com.gt] > Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2002 7:14 PM > To: AmericasMagazine@oas.org > Subject: maps > > > Dear Sirs, > I understand your magazine has published an article "Maps on the cusp of > change" in its April, 2002, issue, pages 38-45. > Is it possible for you to post this article per e-mail? There will be many > map collectors and historians who will be very interested, starting with the > undersigned. > regards, > Jens P.Bornholt > Guatemala > > Peter van der Krogt List-owner MapHist List-info: http://www.maphist.nl _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f X-Sender: np01hd@mail.telepac.pt Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 00:27:03 +0000 To: maphist@geog.uu.nl From: "Alfredo P. Marques - CEMAR" Subject: Re: [MapHist] Portuguese ms atlas of South America (16th century) X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by pop.geog.uu.nl id BAA02459 Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 Dears Peter van der Krogt, Ron van Meer et al.: Only today I saw the message you have posted two or three days ago, dealing with a 16th century Portuguese ms atlas of South America which belonged to a person in Mexico City c.1908. What I can immediatelly say to you is that no such specimen (with the caracteristics you mentioned) is recorded in the comprehensive work CORTESÃO, Armando; MOTA, Avelino Teixeira da (ed.), Portugaliae Monumenta Cartographica, 6 vols., Lisbon, 1960 (reed. facsim. ed. Alfredo Pinheiro Marques, 7 vol., Lisbon, 1987 [1988]). It is highly likely that this is a previously unrecorded Portuguese nautical atlas, which until this day was not yet studied by anybody. I had never heard about it. As far as I know, neither Cortesão and Teixeira da Mota nor any other Portuguese author refers to that atlas (or any other, with similar caracteristics, which would eventually be the same). If you can send more information, I can work on the identification of such a specimen and its author. The first questions are: Where is it today? Is it in Mexico City? Can his place be traceable? Are there images of its maps? Can these images be obtained (if possible with good quality photographs, to permit reading and identifying caracteristics)? Can these images (or some of these images) be sent to the MapHist illustrations page, so that we can analyse them? Some more comments on the message posted: >I am very much interested to learn if the above mentioned book can be >recognized by anyone subscribed to this list. Not yet, with such a brief description and without any detail. > If not, do the glosses >provide any clues to the original author or >history of this book? No, as far as I know. The names mentioned have nothing to do with 16th and 17th century Portuguese known cartographic or colonial circles > Are there >similar manuscripts or books known with maps pertaining to the >16th century >which a similar contents as that of the book described here >and of possible >Portuguese origin? There are a lot of Portuguese atlas from the second half of the 16th century and the beginnings of the 17th century, and some of them deal especially with South and Central America. Portuguese cartographers were at that time great pourveyors of the Spanish cartographic market. Only with a more detailed description and with images of the folios we can go further in the identification. With best wishes Alfredo Pinheiro Marques ** ** * Centro de Estudos do Mar ******** *** PORTUGAL ** ******** ***** ** ************* * * * * ** ************ ************* **** ****************** * *** ** * ** ** ****************************** ** ** * **** ************************************************************* CEMAR-Centro de Estudos do Mar, Urb. Monfoz, Lote 15, 5º Esq. Buarcos, 3080-238 FIGUEIRA DA FOZ - PORTUGAL. Phone: (351) 233434450, Fax: (351) 233434450. alfmarq.cemar@mail.telepac.pt ************************************************************* Alfredo Pinheiro Marques, Faculdade de Letras, Universidade de Coimbra, 3000-447 COIMBRA - PORTUGAL. Phone: (351) 2394109900, Fax: (351) 239836733. alfmarq@ci.uc.pt, Phone Home: (351) 233433258. Visit the Bibliography of the Discoveries at http://www.uc.pt/bd.apm http://alf.ci.uc.pt/fluc/docent/currdoc/alfmarq.htm ************************************************ DESIR ****** _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f X-Sender: maphist@mail.maphist.nl X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 09:09:40 +0200 To: maphist@geog.uu.nl From: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl (by way of List-owner MapHist ) Subject: [MapHist] Searchable version of Jolly/Rosenthal Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 Non-member submission from [Jeremy Pool ] Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 22:50:27 -0400 A little over a year ago, there was a MapHist thread regarding the desirability of having an electronic, searchable, version of 'Jolly' (the Antique Map Price Record). This is now available. Volume 17 of the Antique Map Price Record has just been published as a CD?ROM for MS/Windows. The data is in a searchable database format, and includes all of the data from the earlier 16 volumes, as well as new data for 2001-02. The publisher of the Antique Map Price Record is also changing. Volume 17 is jointly published by Jon and Bernice Rosenthal (Kimmel Publications, which also published volumes 11 through 16) and Jeremy Pool (under the name MapRecord Publications). Future volumes, which will similarly be done in CD-ROM format, will be published by MapRecord Publications. More information is available at http://www.MapRecord.com. -- Jeremy Pool Peter van der Krogt List-owner MapHist List-info: http://www.maphist.nl _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f From: "tony campbell" To: "*MapHist" Subject: [MapHist] Denis Wood on radio & streaming video Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 10:41:34 +0100 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714
The following message came to me privately.  I forward it to MapHist, in case it is of interest to some people, even though it relates to a PR activity to promote Denis Wood's latest book.    Please do *not* respond to me about this!   Tony Campbell
 
 
SUBJECT: Radical Cartographer Denis Wood LIVE on KERA radio on Thursday
4/18/02 (7 - 8 PM central time)

Did you know that mapmakers shape human psychology as well as maps? Tune in
to a fascinating hour of conversation and learn about how maps impact our
perceptions of the planet and the human cultures that inhabit it. Dr. Denis
Wood - author, lecturer, noted map curator, and one of America's best-known
experts on the significance of maps - will share his radical views on
Thursday, April 18 from 7 - 8 PM (USA - Central Time) on KERA. Listeners
around the country can tune in and listen to KERA live. 

Go to: http://www.kera.org/radio/local/conversations/
Then, press the little Windows icon below "search field" at the top right
corner of the web page (if you have a Windows operating system).
Or you can click the button just to the right of that, and use the "Real"
player for listening to the streaming media. We hope you enjoy the
opportunity to be in touch with this exciting event.

Dr. Wood will take listeners on a guided tour of maps and other images that
shape our view of the world. Part of the program will include a provocative
interview about his new book, SEEING THROUGH MAPS, introduce the new "What's
Up? South!" World Map, an upside-down look at the world, and Wood will also
field listener questions about the "Peter's Projection Map." The Peters Map
continues to grow in popularity since last year when its unique perspective
was the focus of an episode on NBC's The West Wing. The equal-area Peters
Projection World Map is claimed to be fair to all people because it
represents each country at true size and proportion.

Learn how to see more clearly and discover how mapmakers influence your
viewpoint. Then discover how to put your own agenda "on the map!"
 X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f X-Sender: krogt@pop.geog.uu.nl X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 15:36:12 +0200 To: maphist@geog.uu.nl From: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl (by way of Peter van der Krogt ) Subject: [MapHist] islands of men and women Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 This message was refused by the majordomo program because the content-type was 'text/html'. - Peter From: piero falchetta On March 2001 (thank you Peter for that), some messages have been exchanged on maphist on the topic "islands of men and women". In case someone on the list have preserved them, I would be very grateful if he/she could send them to me again, beacause I have deleted them. Pier -- ---------- Piero Falchetta Biblioteca Nazionale Marciana Ufficio Carte Geografiche e Progetti Speciali Piazzetta S. Marco 7 30124 Venezia (Italy) tel +39-041-5208788 (operator) tel +39-041-2407224 (direct) fax +39-041-5238803 ---------- _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 08:55:19 -0700 (PDT) From: Pete Boyd Subject: [MapHist] Request help with Wall Map Conservation/Display To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 Hello MapHist subscribers, For all the MapHist conservation/preservation specialists out there, could you please offer advice and opinions on a couple of wall maps that I'm scared to death of ruining. They are mid 19th century and I don't want to be the one to blame for them not lasting for future generations to enjoy. One is in very good "original" condition, still with the varnish, very minor water stain near the top right, very minor edge chipping top left, still attached to orginal rollers and hanging in a room that receives some indirect daylight but no direct sunlight. I have been told by a conservator that it really is not in any need of work, but is there anything I should be doing to keep it that way. It is not in a case or behind any protective barrier (which sounds pricey). Another map is not on rollers, but I was considering having it backed on linen of sufficient size so that it could easily be put back on rollers to be hung. It was recently purchased in a frame. Here is some of the description: "It is stabilized and mounted on linen. The linen backed map has been mounted with archival dry mount tissue in a later frame - it displays very well as is. The map is in excellent condition with overall, uniform darkening - there is what appears to be one tear that was repaired with the linen backing. There is no flaking to the surface, paper loss, major scuffing or other damage. There are some VERY small and light surface scuffs and minor soiling but otherwise this map is simply beautiful." I believe I would prefer it to be hung on rollers, but I would greatly appreciate comments about what is best for the long term survival of the map. Finally, one other map (that I may or may not have the privilege of owning) has been devarnished and rebacked on linen. Varnish is bad for the map? Devarnishing is good? If so, should I have my varnished map devarnished? As I said earlier, one conservator told me it was ok the way it is. Does the varnish provide any great protective benefit or damage. Conversely, for the devarnished map, would I need to do anything extra special to insure its longterm survival and protection should I have the opportunity to acquire it? Thank you so much for helping treat my paranoia and teaching me a bit about wall map conservation and preservation. Kindly, Pete __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax http://taxes.yahoo.com/ _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f From: MarkBabi@aol.com Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 12:31:49 EDT Subject: Re: [MapHist] Request help with Wall Map Conservation/Display To: maphist@geog.uu.nl X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 259 Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 In a message dated 4/17/2002 12:10:45 PM Eastern Daylight Time, mapoholic@YAHOO.COM writes:


Hello MapHist subscribers,

For all the MapHist conservation/preservation specialists out there, could you
please offer advice and opinions on a couple of wall maps that I'm scared to
death of ruining. They are mid 19th century and I don't want to be the one to
blame for them not lasting for future generations to enjoy.

One is in very good "original" condition, still with the varnish, very minor
water stain near the top right, very minor edge chipping top left, still
attached to orginal rollers and hanging in a room that receives some indirect
daylight but no direct sunlight. I have been told by a conservator that it
really is not in any need of work, but is there anything I should be doing to
keep it that way. It is not in a case or behind any protective barrier (which
sounds pricey).

Another map is not on rollers, but I was considering having it backed on linen
of sufficient size so that it could easily be put back on rollers to be hung.
It was recently purchased in a frame. Here is some of the description:
"It is stabilized and mounted on linen. The linen backed map has been mounted
with archival dry mount tissue in a later frame - it displays very well as is.
The map is in excellent condition with overall, uniform darkening - there is
what appears to be one tear that was repaired with the linen backing. There is
no flaking to the surface, paper loss, major scuffing or other damage. There
are some VERY small and light surface scuffs and minor soiling but otherwise
this map is simply beautiful."
I believe I would prefer it to be hung on rollers, but I would greatly
appreciate comments about what is best for the long term survival of the map.

Finally, one other map (that I may or may not have the privilege of owning) has
been devarnished and rebacked on linen. Varnish is bad for the map?
Devarnishing is good? If so, should I have my varnished map devarnished? As I
said earlier, one conservator told me it was ok the way it is. Does the varnish
provide any great protective benefit or damage. Conversely, for the devarnished
map, would I need to do anything extra special to insure its longterm survival
and protection should I have the opportunity to acquire it?

Thank you so much for helping treat my paranoia and teaching me a bit about
wall map conservation and preservation.

Kindly,
Pete


Dear Pete,

There is an outfit in Massachusetts - Green Dragon Bindery - which I believe specializes in restoring old wall maps (i.e. removing varnish, placing on new linen). I understand that map dealers use it. Whether you restore or not depends on preference. 10 years ago, when I started collecting - I WOULD restore, now - I would NOT restore. Not that I would not like the map to look better - restoration usually improves appearance. The problem is that (1) usually some additional damage is done during restoration (2) colors fade. Currently I have 9 or 10 wall maps (19th cent. American) of which 4 or 5 are candidates for restoration. I am not restoring them - waiting until the technology of varnish/stain removal and linen replacement IMPROVES in the future. IF IT DOES then MAYBE I will change my mind and have them restored. I don't loose anything by waiting. In the meantime I am NOT buying any heavily damaged wall maps. I also don't buy any restored wall maps. JUST A PERSONAL OPINION.

Mark Babinski

 X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 23:18:04 -0700 From: "James C. Jeffery III" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7C-CCK-MCD {C-UDP; EBM-APPLE} (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Subject: [MapHist] DesBarres Atlantic Neptune Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 The Phillips #28 (Port Haldimand - Port Amherst) has a generally referenced date of 3. February 1779, however I have what appears to be the same map dated 3. December 1775. Any ideas of the origin of this map. This is my first time on and look forward to our discussions. Best, Jim Jeffery, PO Box 961, Los Gatos, CA 95031 email: jefferyiii@earthlink.net _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 5.5.2 Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 11:03:07 +0200 From: "Jan Smits" To: Subject: Betr.: [MapHist] Request help with Wall Map Conservation/Display X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by pop.geog.uu.nl id LAA08994 Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 Dear Pete, While visiting the Harvard Map Collection during the Boston IFLA conference 2001 we discussed the restoration of wall maps. David Cobb told us that for restoration maps were dismounted [!] into their seperate leaves, restored and not remounted, but kept in their leafy state. Though they may be produced originally as wall maps the question is whether they serve this purpose still, i.e. to hang them on the wall to be viewed. It may be nice for exhibitions or as decoration, but should this be reason enough to remount them and preserve them hanged or rolled. When they are remounted they again will live a precarious and dangerous life, as mechanical and chemical dangers are lurking in the future. The Koninklijke Bibliotheek owns a few beautifully executed 17th and 18th century wall maps which are almost in perfect condition, mechanically as well as chemically, while colours have hardly faded. But not because they are hanged or rolled, but because they were soon after their actual production bound into large bindings, without ever having being mounted into a real wall-map. When, after restoration, they are preserved as a bound volume or as loose leaves it is easier to conserve them and to study them. And for those who want to have an overall-picture you can photograph the separate leaves and glue them together in on of the photo???-programmes. Of course you miss the powerfull large size decoration, but we should wonder for what purpose we preserve them and whether this is the same purpose as originally intended? With kind regards, Jan Smits Jan Smits Koninklijke Bibliotheek, National Library of The Netherlands P.O. Box 90.407 NL-2509 LK Den Haag The Netherlands tel: +31 70 3140241 fax: +31 70 3140450 E-mail: jan.smits@kb.nl E-mail: skd@python.kb.nl (when the above does not function) President Groupe des Cartothecaires de LIBER (GdC, European Map Curators Group) Chairman Working Group for Mapcuratorship, Dutch Cartographic Society (NVK) IFLA Representative for the ICA Spatial Data Standards Commission Secretary Dutch Commision for Cataloguing & Indexing FOBID (Federation of Organizations working in the Library-, Information-, and Documentation-field) WWW-maps: http://www.kb.nl/kb/skd/karto-en.html WWW-GdC: http://www.kb.nl/infolev/liber/intro.htm WWW-personal: http://www.kb.nl/persons/jan-smits/homepage.htm Na matheis kai na matheis ap'tous spoudasmenous (To learn and again to learn from those who know) >>> mapoholic@YAHOO.COM 17-04-02 17:55 >>> Hello MapHist subscribers, For all the MapHist conservation/preservation specialists out there, could you please offer advice and opinions on a couple of wall maps that I'm scared to death of ruining. They are mid 19th century and I don't want to be the one to blame for them not lasting for future generations to enjoy. One is in very good "original" condition, still with the varnish, very minor water stain near the top right, very minor edge chipping top left, still attached to orginal rollers and hanging in a room that receives some indirect daylight but no direct sunlight. I have been told by a conservator that it really is not in any need of work, but is there anything I should be doing to keep it that way. It is not in a case or behind any protective barrier (which sounds pricey). Another map is not on rollers, but I was considering having it backed on linen of sufficient size so that it could easily be put back on rollers to be hung. It was recently purchased in a frame. Here is some of the description: "It is stabilized and mounted on linen. The linen backed map has been mounted with archival dry mount tissue in a later frame - it displays very well as is. The map is in excellent condition with overall, uniform darkening - there is what appears to be one tear that was repaired with the linen backing. There is no flaking to the surface, paper loss, major scuffing or other damage. There are some VERY small and light surface scuffs and minor soiling but otherwise this map is simply beautiful." I believe I would prefer it to be hung on rollers, but I would greatly appreciate comments about what is best for the long term survival of the map. Finally, one other map (that I may or may not have the privilege of owning) has been devarnished and rebacked on linen. Varnish is bad for the map? Devarnishing is good? If so, should I have my varnished map devarnished? As I said earlier, one conservator told me it was ok the way it is. Does the varnish provide any great protective benefit or damage. Conversely, for the devarnished map, would I need to do anything extra special to insure its longterm survival and protection should I have the opportunity to acquire it? Thank you so much for helping treat my paranoia and teaching me a bit about wall map conservation and preservation. Kindly, Pete __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax http://taxes.yahoo.com/ _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 10:47:37 -0700 From: "James C. Jeffery III" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7C-CCK-MCD {C-UDP; EBM-APPLE} (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Subject: [MapHist] DesBarres Atlantic Neptune Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 In addition to me previous request regarding Phillips #28 (Port Haldimand -Port Amherst) I forgot to mention that the latitude of Baccaro Point (SW Nova Scotia is southerly at least 2 full degrees from what it should have been (and is today) at that time. That is on the map with shows as 45 degess 30 minutes and it is really 43 degrees 30 minutes. Any ideas as to why it could possibly be off by that gross amount. Regards, Jim Jeffery jefferyiii@earthlink.net _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f X-Sender: jsk@pop.gamewood.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 14:04:25 -0400 To: maptrade@RAREMAPS.COM From: Joel Kovarsky Subject: [MapHist] May 2002 rotating discount catalogue Cc: maphist@geog.uu.nl Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 We have just posted our May rotating discount catalogue at: . Please take a look. If you have any questions, please email me directly, and do not respond to the list. Joel Kovarsky for THE PRIME MERIDIAN 385 Thistle Trail, Danville, VA 24540 USA Phone: 434/724-1106; Fax: 434/799-0218 email: jsk@gamewood.net Website: _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f X-Sender: miodragm@mail.utexas.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 13:34:20 -0700 To: maphist@geog.uu.nl From: Jilly Traganou Subject: [MapHist] cartography of Japanese colonies Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 Dear memebrs of the Map History list, I am a scholar of Japanese studies and my main research interest is the representation of space in Japan, including the study of maps, guidebooks and pictorial forms. I am currently working on a research project in which I intend to discuss Japanese maps of Japan produced in the Meiji-Taisho eras in parallel with Japanese maps of their colonies, Korea, Taiwan, Manchuria, Micronesia. My study will emphasize railway maps, but it will not be limited to it. As none of these countries has been my area of study until now, I would like to ask you for direction in relation to the cartography of these countries, prior and during the Japanese colonization era. Are there any books, dissertations or articles that you would recommend? I would appreciate enormously your response, Thank you in advance. Sincerely, Jilly Traganou, Ph.D. Lecturer University of Texas at Austin _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f X-Sender: jsk@pop.gamewood.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 20:21:00 -0400 To: maphist@geog.uu.nl From: Joel Kovarsky Subject: Re: [MapHist] cartography of Japanese colonies Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 See: Railway Bureau (Dept. of Communications): The Growth of the Japanese Railways The Japan Times Office Tokyo 1904. This can be a bit difficult to find.

          Joel Kovarsky

> I am a scholar of Japanese studies and my main research interest is
> the representation of space in Japan, including the study of maps,
> guidebooks and pictorial forms. I am currently working on a research
> project in which I intend to discuss Japanese maps of Japan produced
> in the Meiji-Taisho eras in parallel with Japanese maps of their
> colonies, Korea, Taiwan, Manchuria, Micronesia. My study will
> emphasize railway maps,
X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f From: "George S. Carhart" Organization: University of Southern Maine To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 19:38:40 -0500 Subject: Re: [MapHist] cartography of Japanese colonies X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 Two books that may be of use: Japanese Maps of the Edo Period Yamashita Kazumasa Japan: Kashiwashobo Pub.Co., 1998 Isles of Gold: Antique Maps of Japan Hugh Cortazzi New York: Weatherhill, 1983 The Oher Map Library also has a MS Japanese mid 19th century scroll map of the Inland Sea. The map is about 14 feet long and shows the coastal routes and indicates the importance and ranking of various cities. This may be of interest to you. George S. Carhart Cartographic Associate Osher Map Library University of Southern Maine On 18 Apr 2002, at 13:34, Jilly Traganou wrote: > Dear memebrs of the Map History list, > > I am a scholar of Japanese studies and my main research interest is > the representation of space in Japan, including the study of maps, > guidebooks and pictorial forms. I am currently working on a research > project in which I intend to discuss Japanese maps of Japan produced > in the Meiji-Taisho eras in parallel with Japanese maps of their > colonies, Korea, Taiwan, Manchuria, Micronesia. My study will > emphasize railway maps, but it will not be limited to it. As none of > these countries has been my area of study until now, I would like to > ask you for direction in relation to the cartography of these > countries, prior and during the Japanese colonization era. Are there > any books, dissertations or articles that you would recommend? > > I would appreciate enormously your response, > > Thank you in advance. > > Sincerely, > > > Jilly Traganou, Ph.D. > Lecturer > University of Texas at Austin > _______________________________________________________________ > MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography > hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. > The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the > author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of > Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility > for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl George S. Carhart Cartographic Associate Osher Map Library Smith Center for Cartographic Education University of Southern Maine P.O. Box 9301 Portland, Maine 04104-9301 USA (207) 780-4910 gcarhart@usm.maine.edu _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f X-Sender: shkurkin@popd.ix.netcom.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0.2 Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 18:45:04 -0700 To: maphist@geog.uu.nl From: Vlad Shkurkin Subject: Re: [MapHist] cartography of Japanese colonies Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 The following should be regarded as supplementary references.

Of some interest might be:
Pictorial Chosen and Manchuria, compiled in Commemoration of the
Decennial of the Bank of Chosen.  Seoul, Chosen: October 1919, 316 pp. 

This profusely illustrated book, with photographs on nearly every page,
depicts the penetration of Japanese interests in the region, even
showing bank branches as far west at Chita, Siberia.
A map of the region shows the rail network at that time.

Young, C. Walter. Japan's Special Position in Manchuria Its Assertion,
Legal Interpretation and Present Meaning. Baltimore(?): 1931,
Republished. New York: AMS Press, 1971, 412 pp. Small fold-out map
"Railway Map of Manchuria". (better maps exist!)  ISBN 0-404-07072-8
Scholarly work, rich references, railroads well represented.  This is one
of a three-part series: Japan's Jurisdiction and International Legal Position
in Manchuria

Also, any of the more definitive works which include the history of the
Chinese Eastern Railway, and especially the South Manchuria Railway
branch.

And finally, the two detailed Manchuria maps (1904 and 1905) from
CD-ROM disc 8 of National Geographic Maps: The Complete Collection.
Encore Software,Inc.  2001 Produced by nationalgeographic.com
These maps show rail lines in detail.

Hope that this material might be of some use.

Cheers,
Vlad Shkurkin, San Pablo, California
(510) 232-7742, fax (510) 236-7050


I am a scholar of Japanese studies and my main research interest is the
representation of space in Japan, including the study of maps, guidebooks
and pictorial forms. I am currently working on a research project in which
I intend to discuss Japanese maps of Japan produced in the Meiji-Taisho
eras in parallel with Japanese maps of their colonies, Korea, Taiwan,
Manchuria, Micronesia. My study will emphasize railway maps, but it will
not be limited to it. As none of these countries has been my area of study
until now, I would like to ask you for direction in relation to the
cartography of these countries, prior and during the Japanese colonization
era. Are there any books, dissertations or articles that you would recommend?

I would appreciate enormously your response,

Thank you in advance.

Sincerely,


Jilly Traganou, Ph.D.
Lecturer
University of Texas at Austin
X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f X-Sender: maphist@mail.maphist.nl (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 08:37:39 +0200 To: maphist@geog.uu.nl From: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl (by way of List-owner MapHist ) Subject: [MapHist] At wits end, Need Professional Help with Map Image Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 This message had a wrong word on the wrong place and was refused by majordomo. - Peter Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 18:17:45 -0700 (PDT) From: Jay Lester Subject: At wits end, Need Professional Help with Map Image This message is for MapHisters who edit/publish digital images of maps or who otherwise are involved with digital photography and computer postprocessing of same. Anyone not so interested can delete without fear of missing anything useful. Also please accept apology for crossposting to MapTrade, but I'll take any help from wherever I can get it. My sloppy map photo editing is driving me nuts. I have been taking digital photos of some old maps for putting on a web site; but most look (and are) embarrassingly amateurish. For details of this particular problem, please go to this web page, http://www.cummingmapsociety.org/NeedHelpEditingImages.htm where you'll find an approximately 370 kB image that is a prime example of my problem, along with an explanation of what I'm trying to accomplish. Thank you so much. If the URL above doesn't work, I can email the image and info to whomever desires. Please reply offline to mapsguy@yahoo.com With gratitude, Jay L. ===== Jay Lester Chapel Hill, NC mapsguy@yahoo.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax http://taxes.yahoo.com/ _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f X-Originating-IP: [66.76.37.41] From: "Jack Mills" To: Subject: [MapHist] Query: When was map orientation changed to North at top? Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 02:27:03 -0500 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 19 Apr 2002 07:27:17.0216 (UTC) FILETIME=[A23BAE00:01C1E773] Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 Earliest maps were oriented with East at the top. When did the common orientation change to North at the top? Please let me know. Thanks in advance. Best wishes, Jack Mills Coordinator Office of Research Services, Geographic Information Systems Lab http://www.uttyler.edu/GIS/index.htm The University of Texas at Tyler 3900 University Blvd Room BUS 205 Tyler TX 75799-0001 Lab 903/566-7366 Fax 903/565-5537 _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f X-Sender: maphist@mail.maphist.nl X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 09:52:05 +0200 To: maphist@geog.uu.nl From: Peter van der Krogt Subject: Re: [MapHist] Query: When was map orientation changed to North at top? Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 This query we have had earlier on MapHist, but maybe there are new views. At least since the early sixteenth century it became more and more the use that north is at the top, but it is still not a rule. Many modern town plans have a different orientation. Peter At 09:27 19-4-2002, you wrote: >Earliest maps were oriented with East at the top. When did the common >orientation change to North at the top? Please let me know. Thanks in >advance. > >Best wishes, > >Jack Mills > >Coordinator >Office of Research Services, > Geographic Information Systems Lab >http://www.uttyler.edu/GIS/index.htm >The University of Texas at Tyler >3900 University Blvd Room BUS 205 >Tyler TX 75799-0001 > >Lab 903/566-7366 >Fax 903/565-5537 >_______________________________________________________________ >MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography >hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. >The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of >the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of >Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for >the views of the author. >List Information: http://www.maphist.nl YYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY Dr Peter van der Krogt Map Historian, Explokart Research Program Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht P.O. Box 80.115 3508 TC UTRECHT, The Netherlands e-mail: peter@maphist.nl Homepage: MapHist: Genealogy: Elementymology: Columbus Monuments: YYYYYYYYYYYYYYY PER ANGUSTA AD AUGUSTA YYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f From: "Catherine Delano-Smith" To: Subject: Re: [MapHist] Query: When was map orientation changed to North at top? Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 09:37:39 +0100 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 Some myths die hard! As a guide, based mainly on English manuscript maps for the period 1150-1500, and on European printed regional maps for the period 1500-1600, I would suggest: 1. 1150-1500: 37 per cent orientated to North; 13 per cent to east, 23 per cent to west, 26 per cent to south. 2. 1500-1550: 57 per cent to north, 5 per cent to east, 5 per cent to west, 31 per cent to south. 3. 1550-1600 94 per cent to north, 2 per cent to east, 2 per cent to west, 2 per cent to south. These, and other, figures will be published in due course in my essay on signs on printed topographical maps in the firthcoming Volume 3 of the HISTORY OF CARTOGRAPHY. Until then please regard this as a personal communication. Catherine Delano-Smith ----- Original Message ----- From: Jack Mills To: Sent: Friday, April 19, 2002 8:27 AM Subject: [MapHist] Query: When was map orientation changed to North at top? > Earliest maps were oriented with East at the top. When did the common > orientation change to North at the top? Please let me know. Thanks in > advance. > > Best wishes, > > Jack Mills > > Coordinator > Office of Research Services, > Geographic Information Systems Lab > http://www.uttyler.edu/GIS/index.htm > The University of Texas at Tyler > 3900 University Blvd Room BUS 205 > Tyler TX 75799-0001 > > Lab 903/566-7366 > Fax 903/565-5537 > _______________________________________________________________ > MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography > hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. > The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of > the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of > Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for > the views of the author. > List Information: http://www.maphist.nl > _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f From: F.Herbert@RGS.ORG To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Subject: RE: [MapHist] Query: When was map orientation changed to North a t top? Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 10:00:16 +0100 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 To which (both to Peter's and to Catherine's responses) one has - yet again - to urge enquirers also to look east and consider non-Western cultures - the 'History of Cartography' volumes ed. Harley and Woodward (Univ. of Chicago Pr., 1987 onwards) vol. 2, books 1 and 2. I suggest, in any case, that Jack Mills takes a flight to Dallas/Fort Worth and submerge himself in the reference materials of the Univ. of Texas at Arlington's Library's Special Collections Division's Cartographic History Library (Prop. : Katherine (Kit) Goodwin, e-mail: goodwin@uta.edu). Francis Herbert (unpaid-up member for 2002 of Texas Map Society...) f.herbert@rgs.org http://www.rgs.org [see 'Collections'/'Unlocking the Archives'] > -----Original Message----- > From: Catherine Delano-Smith [SMTP:c.delano-smith@qmul.ac.uk] > Sent: 19 April 2002 09:38 > To: maphist@geog.uu.nl > Subject: Re: [MapHist] Query: When was map orientation changed to > North at top? > > Some myths die hard! > > As a guide, based mainly on English manuscript maps for the period > 1150-1500, and on European printed regional maps for the period 1500-1600, > I > would suggest: > > 1. 1150-1500: > 37 per cent orientated to North; 13 per cent to east, 23 per cent to west, > 26 per cent to south. > > 2. 1500-1550: > 57 per cent to north, 5 per cent to east, 5 per cent to west, 31 per cent > to > south. > > 3. 1550-1600 > 94 per cent to north, 2 per cent to east, 2 per cent to west, 2 per cent > to > south. > > These, and other, figures will be published in due course in my essay on > signs on printed topographical maps in the firthcoming Volume 3 of the > HISTORY OF CARTOGRAPHY. Until then please regard this as a personal > communication. > > Catherine Delano-Smith > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Jack Mills > To: > Sent: Friday, April 19, 2002 8:27 AM > Subject: [MapHist] Query: When was map orientation changed to North at > top? > > > > Earliest maps were oriented with East at the top. When did the common > > orientation change to North at the top? Please let me know. Thanks in > > advance. > > > > Best wishes, > > > > Jack Mills > > > > Coordinator > > Office of Research Services, > > Geographic Information Systems Lab > > http://www.uttyler.edu/GIS/index.htm > > The University of Texas at Tyler > > 3900 University Blvd Room BUS 205 > > Tyler TX 75799-0001 > > > > Lab 903/566-7366 > > Fax 903/565-5537 > > _______________________________________________________________ > > MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography > > hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. > > The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of > > the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of > > Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for > > the views of the author. > > List Information: http://www.maphist.nl > > > > _______________________________________________________________ > MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography > hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. > The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of > the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of > Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for > the views of the author. > List Information: http://www.maphist.nl _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f From: F.Herbert@RGS.ORG To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Subject: RE: [MapHist] cartography of Japanese colonies Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 10:25:57 +0100 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 Dear Dr Jilly Traganou: You do not tell us that you already know of the four articles concerning Japan and railways, and published in 'Chizu = Map : journal of the Japan Cartographers' Association' (ISSN 0009-4897) - all, as it so happens, listed in the same 'Imago Mundi Bibliography' of vol. 48 (1996). Such items can be found in the 'IM Bibliography' by a form of Boolean searching : use one term ('Japan') from the 'Geographical regions' index and another ('Railways') from the 'Subjects' index - Bingo! I cannot guarantee, of course, that all four items will be of right time period for you. Remember, too, that individual items listed in the 'IM Bibliography' mention where there are references and/or bibliographies present, that may themselves include other useful citations. Sincerely Francis Herbert (Curator of Maps, RGS-IBG; Compiler of 'IM Bibliography' since 1976) f.herbert@rgs.org http://www.rgs.org [see 'Collections'/'Unlocking the Archives'] > -----Original Message----- > From: Jilly Traganou [SMTP:miodragm@mail.utexas.edu] > Sent: 18 April 2002 21:34 > To: maphist@geog.uu.nl > Subject: [MapHist] cartography of Japanese colonies > > Dear memebrs of the Map History list, > > I am a scholar of Japanese studies and my main research interest is the > representation of space in Japan, including the study of maps, guidebooks > and pictorial forms. I am currently working on a research project in which > I intend to discuss Japanese maps of Japan produced in the Meiji-Taisho > eras in parallel with Japanese maps of their colonies, Korea, Taiwan, > Manchuria, Micronesia. My study will emphasize railway maps, but it will > not be limited to it. As none of these countries has been my area of study > until now, I would like to ask you for direction in relation to the > cartography of these countries, prior and during the Japanese colonization > era. Are there any books, dissertations or articles that you would > recommend? > > I would appreciate enormously your response, > > Thank you in advance. > > Sincerely, > > > Jilly Traganou, Ph.D. > Lecturer > University of Texas at Austin > _______________________________________________________________ > MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography > hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. > The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of > the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of > Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for > the views of the author. > List Information: http://www.maphist.nl _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f X-Sender: maphist@mail.maphist.nl X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 11:34:07 +0200 To: maphist@geog.uu.nl From: Peter van der Krogt Subject: [MapHist] 20 April MapHist temporarily unavailable Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 List - The computer department of our Faculty just distributed a note that on Saturday 20 April a trafo had to be changed in our building. That means that the power is switched off from 08.00 - 16.00 Central European Time. During this time e-mail to and from the mailservers in the building - this includes MapHist - is not possible and webservers are disconnected from the www (the MapHist website is on another server is and will be available). Peter van der Krogt List-owner MapHist List-info: http://www.maphist.nl _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f X-Sender: krogt@pop.geog.uu.nl X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 12:19:29 +0200 To: maphist@geog.uu.nl From: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl (by way of Peter van der Krogt ) Subject: Re: [MapHist] Query: When was map orientation changed to North at top? Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 This message was refused by the majordomo program because the content-type was 'text/html'. When you want to sent to the list without my intervenience, change the settings of you e-mail program. - Peter From: piero falchetta Jack Mills wrote: >Earliest maps were oriented with East at the top. When did the common >orientation change to North at the top? Please let me know. Thanks in >advance. > The first Greek and Roman maps were often oriented with North at the top, but this wasn't the effect of a general agreement or of a specific rule. During the Middle Ages most of the mappaemundi were oriented with the East (for symbolic-religious reasons) or with the South (sometimes for the influence of the Islamic cartography) at the top. Ptolemy's maps are oriented with the North at the top, and his influence made that little by little this orientation prevaled in Western cartography. The first atlas with maps always oriented with the North at the top was Ortelius' *Theatrum* )1570. -- ---------- Piero Falchetta Biblioteca Nazionale Marciana Ufficio Carte Geografiche e Progetti Speciali Piazzetta S. Marco 7 30124 Venezia (Italy) tel +39-041-5208788 (operator) tel +39-041-2407224 (direct) fax +39-041-5238803 ---------- _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f X-Sender: cobb@pop.fas.harvard.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 09:22:33 -0400 To: maphist@geog.uu.nl From: David Cobb Subject: RE: [MapHist] cartography of Japanese colonies Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 Francis - You "seem" to be suggesting (using boolean searching?) that an IM Bibliography is available online but you do not provide any address for it. Indeed the History of Cartography website provides "some" access but not cumulative nor comprehensive - other address?? David At 10:25 AM 4/19/02 +0100, you wrote: >Dear Dr Jilly Traganou: > >You do not tell us that you already know of the four articles concerning >Japan and railways, and published in 'Chizu = Map : journal of the Japan >Cartographers' Association' (ISSN 0009-4897) - all, as it so happens, listed >in the same 'Imago Mundi Bibliography' of vol. 48 (1996). Such items can be >found in the 'IM Bibliography' by a form of Boolean searching : use one term >('Japan') from the 'Geographical regions' index and another ('Railways') >from the 'Subjects' index - Bingo! I cannot guarantee, of course, that all >four items will be of right time period for you. Remember, too, that >individual items listed in the 'IM Bibliography' mention where there are >references and/or bibliographies present, that may themselves include other >useful citations. > >Sincerely >Francis Herbert (Curator of Maps, RGS-IBG; Compiler of 'IM Bibliography' >since 1976) >f.herbert@rgs.org >http://www.rgs.org [see 'Collections'/'Unlocking the Archives'] > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Jilly Traganou [SMTP:miodragm@mail.utexas.edu] >> Sent: 18 April 2002 21:34 >> To: maphist@geog.uu.nl >> Subject: [MapHist] cartography of Japanese colonies >> >> Dear memebrs of the Map History list, >> >> I am a scholar of Japanese studies and my main research interest is the >> representation of space in Japan, including the study of maps, guidebooks >> and pictorial forms. I am currently working on a research project in which >> I intend to discuss Japanese maps of Japan produced in the Meiji-Taisho >> eras in parallel with Japanese maps of their colonies, Korea, Taiwan, >> Manchuria, Micronesia. My study will emphasize railway maps, but it will >> not be limited to it. As none of these countries has been my area of study >> until now, I would like to ask you for direction in relation to the >> cartography of these countries, prior and during the Japanese colonization >> era. Are there any books, dissertations or articles that you would >> recommend? >> >> I would appreciate enormously your response, >> >> Thank you in advance. >> >> Sincerely, >> >> >> Jilly Traganou, Ph.D. >> Lecturer >> University of Texas at Austin >> _______________________________________________________________ >> MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography >> hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. >> The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of >> the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of >> Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for >> the views of the author. >> List Information: http://www.maphist.nl >_______________________________________________________________ >MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography >hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. >The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of >the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of >Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for >the views of the author. >List Information: http://www.maphist.nl > *************************************************************************** David A. Cobb Tel. 617.495.2417 Harvard Map Collection FAX 617.496.0440 Harvard College Library Email: cobb@fas.harvard.edu Cambridge, MA 02138 HTTP://hcl.harvard.edu/maps ************************** VERITAS **************************************** _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f From: F.Herbert@RGS.ORG To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Subject: RE: [MapHist] cartography of Japanese colonies Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 14:45:47 +0100 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 Davis Alas, it was not my intention to suggest that the 'IM Bibliography' was - or is (again, alas) - online; I merely adapted the theory of taking two 'lines' from two 'points' and locating where they met (yes, I know: it's not 'triangulation ' as we know it!). It's still a matter of applying this theory manually issue-by-issue of the annual 'IM Bibliography' from vol. 46 (1994) as far as the provision of three indexes is concerned (Personal and institutional names as authors or subjects ; Geographical regions ; and Subjects - see quote from History of Cartography gateway site below)). "One of IM's most celebrated features is the Bibliography that Francis Herbert has produced for 25 years. IM is the journal of record for the history of cartography, and Francis's Bibliography has set, and maintained, the highest standards. So that you can gain an idea of the unexpectedly dense (and highly useful) detail he provides, a few samples have been mounted on the IM website at . Besides the entries themselves, there are also samples of the three indexes, and Francis's explanatory note on the methodology he uses." [posted to MapHist by Tony Campbell on 22 November 2000] If you know of any way to raise the money to finance the scanning and merging - and retrospectively compiling a cumulative index of all three indexes to all the entries - of over 25 years of the 'IM Bibliography' Tony Campbell would be absolutely delighted to know! As would, for example, Bob Karrow and - probably last but not least - yours Sincerely Francis f.herbert@rgs.org http://www.rgs.org [see 'Collections'/'Unlocking the Archives'] > -----Original Message----- > From: David Cobb [SMTP:cobb@fas.harvard.edu] > Sent: 19 April 2002 14:23 > To: maphist@geog.uu.nl > Subject: RE: [MapHist] cartography of Japanese colonies > > > Francis - > > You "seem" to be suggesting (using boolean searching?) that an IM > Bibliography is available online but you do not provide any address for > it. > Indeed the History of Cartography website provides "some" access but not > cumulative nor comprehensive - other address?? > > David > > At 10:25 AM 4/19/02 +0100, you wrote: > >Dear Dr Jilly Traganou: > > > >You do not tell us that you already know of the four articles concerning > >Japan and railways, and published in 'Chizu = Map : journal of the Japan > >Cartographers' Association' (ISSN 0009-4897) - all, as it so happens, > listed > >in the same 'Imago Mundi Bibliography' of vol. 48 (1996). Such items can > be > >found in the 'IM Bibliography' by a form of Boolean searching : use one > term > >('Japan') from the 'Geographical regions' index and another ('Railways') > >from the 'Subjects' index - Bingo! I cannot guarantee, of course, that > all > >four items will be of right time period for you. Remember, too, that > >individual items listed in the 'IM Bibliography' mention where there are > >references and/or bibliographies present, that may themselves include > other > >useful citations. > > > >Sincerely > >Francis Herbert (Curator of Maps, RGS-IBG; Compiler of 'IM Bibliography' > >since 1976) > >f.herbert@rgs.org > >http://www.rgs.org [see 'Collections'/'Unlocking the Archives'] > > > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: Jilly Traganou [SMTP:miodragm@mail.utexas.edu] > >> Sent: 18 April 2002 21:34 > >> To: maphist@geog.uu.nl > >> Subject: [MapHist] cartography of Japanese colonies > >> > >> Dear memebrs of the Map History list, > >> > >> I am a scholar of Japanese studies and my main research interest is the > >> representation of space in Japan, including the study of maps, > guidebooks > >> and pictorial forms. I am currently working on a research project in > which > >> I intend to discuss Japanese maps of Japan produced in the Meiji-Taisho > >> eras in parallel with Japanese maps of their colonies, Korea, Taiwan, > >> Manchuria, Micronesia. My study will emphasize railway maps, but it > will > >> not be limited to it. As none of these countries has been my area of > study > >> until now, I would like to ask you for direction in relation to the > >> cartography of these countries, prior and during the Japanese > colonization > >> era. Are there any books, dissertations or articles that you would > >> recommend? > >> > >> I would appreciate enormously your response, > >> > >> Thank you in advance. > >> > >> Sincerely, > >> > >> > >> Jilly Traganou, Ph.D. > >> Lecturer > >> University of Texas at Austin > >> _______________________________________________________________ > >> MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography > >> hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. > >> The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of > >> the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of > >> Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for > >> the views of the author. > >> List Information: http://www.maphist.nl > >_______________________________________________________________ > >MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography > >hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. > >The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of > >the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of > >Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for > >the views of the author. > >List Information: http://www.maphist.nl > > > ************************************************************************** > * > David A. Cobb Tel. 617.495.2417 > Harvard Map Collection FAX 617.496.0440 > Harvard College Library Email: > cobb@fas.harvard.edu > Cambridge, MA 02138 > HTTP://hcl.harvard.edu/maps > ************************** VERITAS > **************************************** > _______________________________________________________________ > MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography > hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. > The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of > the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of > Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for > the views of the author. > List Information: http://www.maphist.nl _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f X-Info: This message was accepted for relay by smtp02.mrf.mail.rcn.net as the sender used SMTP authentication X-Trace: UmFuZG9tSVYoB+V8NY1NB9rNw09uCDRnuqezif5kNC1L0ALsPIY7+Echs3POP+1AnQ2Y9y/xi78= X-Sender: sanderva@pop.erols.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 10:57:56 -0400 To: maphist@geog.uu.nl From: Jeanne & Tom Sander Subject: [MapHist] cartography of Japanese colonies X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by pop.geog.uu.nl id QAA18315 Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 The list is currently assisting a new member, Dr. Jilly Traganou, with her continued research on cartography of Japanese colonies. Readers will remember that she received an Honorable Mention in the 1999 competition for the Walter W. Ristow Prize for Cartographic History and Map Librarianship, awarded by the Washington Map Society. Her paper, “Geographic Representations of the Tôkaidô from Edo to Meiji Japanôôôô,” appeared in Issue 47 (Spring 2000) of “The Portolan,” Journal of the Washington Map Society. Regards, Tom Sander *************************************************** Thomas F. Sander Phone (703) 426-2880 Editor, The Portolan Fax (703) 426-2881 Washington Map Society E-mail Sanderva@erols.com P. O. Box 10793 Burke, VA 22009-0793 USA Web Sites: Washington Map Society: http://www.washmap.org The Portolan: http://home.cyberia.com/~jdocktor/portolan.htm *************************************************** _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f From: "Evelyn Edson" To: Subject: RE: [MapHist] Query: When was map orientation changed to North at top? Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 11:45:47 -0400 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 To add to the words of wisdom already offered: Ptolemy maps (first appearing in Europe in the 15th century) were oriented to the north, as were many portolan charts. So I would say the orientation partly depends on the type of map. Evelyn Edson Professor of History Piedmont Virginia Community College 501 College Drive Charlottesville, VA 22902 (434) 961-5384 _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 5.5.5.1 Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 11:57:25 -0400 From: "Edward James Redmond" To: Subject: Re: [MapHist] DesBarres Atlantic Neptune Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 Mr. Jeffery: Based on the descriptions of your chart and a comparison with the several copies of the Atlantic Neptune in our collection, your 'Port Amherst' chart appears to be the fourth state. See Sellers and Van Ee, Maps and Charts of North America and the West Indies, 1750 - 1789 (Library of Congress, 1981) entries 524.through 531. Ed Redmond Reference Specialist Geography and Map Division Library of Congress ered@loc.gov >>> jefferyiii@earthlink.net 04/18 1:47 PM >>> In addition to me previous request regarding Phillips #28 (Port Haldimand -Port Amherst) I forgot to mention that the latitude of Baccaro Point (SW Nova Scotia is southerly at least 2 full degrees from what it should have been (and is today) at that time. That is on the map with shows as 45 degess 30 minutes and it is really 43 degrees 30 minutes. Any ideas as to why it could possibly be off by that gross amount. Regards, Jim Jeffery jefferyiii@earthlink.net _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f From: "Marcel van den Broecke" To: Subject: [MapHist] When was map orientation changed Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 19:51:00 +0200 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MailScanner: Found to be clean Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 I would like to correct the statement made by Falchetta that Ortelius always had north at the top of his maps. Out of the 217 different maps occurring over the editions of the Theatrum as made by Ortelius and later by his successor Vrients, 13 have west at the top, 22 have east at the top, and 4 have south at the top, including the imaginary Utopia. In one map, Veromanduorum, my number 44b, south is at the top, which after 1598 is changed to a new plate, 45b, with north at the top. In most cases, the choice was motivated by optimal coverage of the mapsheet. Marcel van den Broecke Cartographica Neerlandica tel. +31 30 2202 396 fax +31 30 2203 326 e-mail: info@orteliusmaps.com URL: www.orteliusmaps.com _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 21:12:59 -0700 From: "James C. Jeffery III" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7C-CCK-MCD {C-UDP; EBM-APPLE} (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Subject: Re: [MapHist] Query: When was map orientation changed to North at top? Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 Great question, if it hasn't been discussed on the site before I think it should be of interest to everyone, if not please keep me informed of your findings. Best, Jim Jeffery Jack Mills wrote: > > Earliest maps were oriented with East at the top. When did the common > orientation change to North at the top? Please let me know. Thanks in > advance. > > Best wishes, > > Jack Mills > > Coordinator > Office of Research Services, > Geographic Information Systems Lab > http://www.uttyler.edu/GIS/index.htm > The University of Texas at Tyler > 3900 University Blvd Room BUS 205 > Tyler TX 75799-0001 > > Lab 903/566-7366 > Fax 903/565-5537 > _______________________________________________________________ > MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography > hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. > The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of > the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of > Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for > the views of the author. > List Information: http://www.maphist.nl _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f From: KitTheMap@aol.com Date: Sat, 20 Apr 2002 08:26:44 EDT Subject: [MapHist] map orientation To: maphist@geog.uu.nl X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows DE sub 10512 Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 I have a feeling the question is slightly wrong: it assumes that there was a fixed idea of other directions being in some way "correct" and this was changed to north.
1) as a previous writer mentioned, the representations of Ptolomy's writings produced maps with different orientations, none can be designated "correct" - or conversely they are all correct.
2) this is probabkly a very "western" view. The "Japanese" researcher will find these maps had a very different idea about orientation.
3) much evidence will be circumstantial or anecdotal. My Wallis' County Atlas of England and Wales - 1812 - has 42 maps, all drawn with north to the "top". However these maps have been bound in with north to the top of the page on only 20 maps, ie in all others north "faces" the right hand margin. The New Pocket edition appearing about the same time, had maps oriented in three different directions if my memory serves me right.

Should the question be: At what stage can we state that all maps appearing in an atlas or anthology of maps in the western world were printed uniformly to show north both drawn and printed at the "top" of the page?
Kit X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f X-Sender: shkurkin@popd.ix.netcom.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0.2 Date: Sat, 20 Apr 2002 08:12:20 -0700 To: maphist@geog.uu.nl From: Vlad Shkurkin Subject: Re: [MapHist] map orientation Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 Some personal comments on orientation, 

1.  The convenience of the map layout in its production (both manuscript and printed) has been noted.
2.   Following a tradition or convention of a specific orientation for subsequent maps (when orientation was changed) has been discussed.
3.   What has not been mentioned (possibly because it would not be a response to the original "when" question) is how the variant orientations might have originated.  I suspect it had to do with the mode of travel which produced the maps as records of exploration in the first place.  The rising sun provided a directional aid for land travelers. The original meaning of "orient" was "the direction of the sunrise"  (from the Latin oriens "rising").  The emergence of a north orientation as a dominant one seems to have coincided in time with the increase in maritime-based exploration.
4.   What has not been mentioned is the possibly strong influence of globes as the driving force in small-scale north-oriented cartography.  Thus, the time of the emergence of globes might be a partial answer as to the period when north became statistically significant.

(I seem to remember a thread on the entymology of "Orient" and "orientation" several years ago.)

Vlad Shkurkin
6025 Rose Arbor
San Pablo California 94806-4147 USA
30 km NE of San Francisco
1-510 232 7742, fax 236-7050 X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f X-Sender: jenterli/pop3.concentric.net@pop3.norton.antivirus X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.2 Date: Sat, 20 Apr 2002 11:19:40 -0400 To: maphist@geog.uu.nl From: James Enterline Subject: Re: [MapHist] map orientation Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 Kit's comments about western outlooks on orientation are much to the point, but even still miss a broader aspect. The very concepts of " North, South, East, West" are biased towards those who live in middle latitudes, where the Sun has an obvious orderly behavior. In the high Arctic these cardinal directions are pretty much useless, and this had its ramifications in what we are coming to know about bygone Inuit cartography. They relied upon prevailing wind directions for cardinal references. Jim At 08:26 AM 04/20/02 -0400, you wrote: >I have a feeling the question is slightly wrong: it assumes that there was >a fixed idea of other directions being in some way "correct" and this was >changed to north. >1) as a previous writer mentioned, the representations of Ptolomy's >writings produced maps with different orientations, none can be designated >"correct" - or conversely they are all correct. >2) this is probabkly a very "western" view. The "Japanese" researcher will >find these maps had a very different idea about orientation. >3) much evidence will be circumstantial or anecdotal. My Wallis' County >Atlas of England and Wales - 1812 - has 42 maps, all drawn with north to >the "top". However these maps have been bound in with north to the top of >the page on only 20 maps, ie in all others north "faces" the right hand >margin. The New Pocket edition appearing about the same time, had maps >oriented in three different directions if my memory serves me right. > >Should the question be: At what stage can we state that all maps appearing >in an atlas or anthology of maps in the western world were printed >uniformly to show north both drawn and printed at the "top" of the page? >Kit _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f X-Sender: gcrossma@pop.cais.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Sun, 20 Apr 1997 14:16:45 -0400 To: maphist@geog.uu.nl From: "George R. Crossman" Subject: Re: [MapHist] map orientation Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 I am reminded of a map I once saw from Australia that had been printed with South at the top. Australia was in the center, left to right, so that you could say that Australia was at the "top of the world." All the geographic landforms were, from our usual northern hemisphere custom, "upside down." It was amazing to see how disorienting that was. All the names were printed where they belonged: "England" was in England, and "Germany" was in Germany. But the inverted images made it very difficult to recognize them for what they were. George Crossman At 11:19 AM 4/20/02 -0400, you wrote: >Kit's comments about western outlooks on orientation are much to the point, >but even still miss a broader aspect. The very concepts of " North, South, >East, West" are biased towards those who live in middle latitudes, where >the Sun has an obvious orderly behavior. In the high Arctic these cardinal >directions are pretty much useless, and this had its ramifications in what >we are coming to know about bygone Inuit cartography. They relied upon >prevailing wind directions for cardinal references. > >Jim > >At 08:26 AM 04/20/02 -0400, you wrote: >>I have a feeling the question is slightly wrong: it assumes that there was >>a fixed idea of other directions being in some way "correct" and this was >>changed to north. >>1) as a previous writer mentioned, the representations of Ptolomy's >>writings produced maps with different orientations, none can be designated >>"correct" - or conversely they are all correct. >>2) this is probabkly a very "western" view. The "Japanese" researcher will >>find these maps had a very different idea about orientation. >>3) much evidence will be circumstantial or anecdotal. My Wallis' County >>Atlas of England and Wales - 1812 - has 42 maps, all drawn with north to >>the "top". However these maps have been bound in with north to the top of >>the page on only 20 maps, ie in all others north "faces" the right hand >>margin. The New Pocket edition appearing about the same time, had maps >>oriented in three different directions if my memory serves me right. >> >>Should the question be: At what stage can we state that all maps appearing >>in an atlas or anthology of maps in the western world were printed >>uniformly to show north both drawn and printed at the "top" of the page? >>Kit > >_______________________________________________________________ >MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography >hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. >The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of >the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of >Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for >the views of the author. >List Information: http://www.maphist.nl > > _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f Date: Sat, 20 Apr 2002 09:00:37 -0700 (PDT) From: David Johnson Subject: Re: [MapHist] At wits end, Need Professional Help with Map Image To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 Jay, I, for one, think the photo looks fine! Dj --- "by way of List-owner MapHist " wrote: > This message had a wrong word on the wrong place and > was refused by > majordomo. - Peter > > Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 18:17:45 -0700 (PDT) > From: Jay Lester > Subject: At wits end, Need Professional Help with > Map Image > > This message is for MapHisters who edit/publish > digital images of maps > or who otherwise are involved with digital > photography and computer > postprocessing of same. Anyone not so interested can > delete without > fear of missing anything useful. Also please accept > apology for > crossposting to MapTrade, but I'll take any help > from wherever I can > get it. > > My sloppy map photo editing is driving me nuts. I > have been taking > digital photos of some old maps for putting on a web > site; but most > look (and are) embarrassingly amateurish. For > details of this > particular problem, please go to this web page, > > > http://www.cummingmapsociety.org/NeedHelpEditingImages.htm > > where you'll find an approximately 370 kB image that > is a prime example > of my problem, along with an explanation of what I'm > trying to > accomplish. > > Thank you so much. If the URL above doesn't work, I > can email the image > and info to whomever desires. Please reply offline > to mapsguy@yahoo.com > > With gratitude, > Jay L. > > ===== > Jay Lester > Chapel Hill, NC > mapsguy@yahoo.com > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax > http://taxes.yahoo.com/ > > _______________________________________________________________ > MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of > cartography > hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, > University of Utrecht. > The statements and opinions expressed in this > message are those of > the author and do not necessarily reflect those of > the University of > Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any > responsibility for > the views of the author. > List Information: http://www.maphist.nl __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Games - play chess, backgammon, pool and more http://games.yahoo.com/ _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f From: "Rodney Shirley" To: Subject: Re: [MapHist] map orientation Date: Sat, 20 Apr 2002 20:53:22 +0100 Organization: UUNET X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 Although it could not have been the map which George Crossmann saw, there is the rare inverted world map printed in Uppsala, Sweden in 1610. (This is depicted in Plate E in the Corrigenda and Addenda to the latest (fourth) edition of my book `The Mapping of the World'). There were very few other early printed world maps with south at the top although--as someone else has observed--several manuscript Arabic maps adopted this orientation. Rodney Shirley rws@dial.pipex.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "George R. Crossman" To: Sent: 20 April 1997 19:16 Subject: Re: [MapHist] map orientation > I am reminded of a map I once saw from Australia that had been printed with > South at the top. Australia was in the center, left to right, so that you > could say that Australia was at the "top of the world." All the geographic > landforms were, from our usual northern hemisphere custom, "upside down." > It was amazing to see how disorienting that was. All the names were printed > where they belonged: "England" was in England, and "Germany" was in > Germany. But the inverted images made it very difficult to recognize them > for what they were. > > George Crossman > > At 11:19 AM 4/20/02 -0400, you wrote: > >Kit's comments about western outlooks on orientation are much to the point, > >but even still miss a broader aspect. The very concepts of " North, South, > >East, West" are biased towards those who live in middle latitudes, where > >the Sun has an obvious orderly behavior. In the high Arctic these cardinal > >directions are pretty much useless, and this had its ramifications in what > >we are coming to know about bygone Inuit cartography. They relied upon > >prevailing wind directions for cardinal references. > > > >Jim > > > >At 08:26 AM 04/20/02 -0400, you wrote: > >>I have a feeling the question is slightly wrong: it assumes that there was > >>a fixed idea of other directions being in some way "correct" and this was > >>changed to north. > >>1) as a previous writer mentioned, the representations of Ptolomy's > >>writings produced maps with different orientations, none can be designated > >>"correct" - or conversely they are all correct. > >>2) this is probabkly a very "western" view. The "Japanese" researcher will > >>find these maps had a very different idea about orientation. > >>3) much evidence will be circumstantial or anecdotal. My Wallis' County > >>Atlas of England and Wales - 1812 - has 42 maps, all drawn with north to > >>the "top". However these maps have been bound in with north to the top of > >>the page on only 20 maps, ie in all others north "faces" the right hand > >>margin. The New Pocket edition appearing about the same time, had maps > >>oriented in three different directions if my memory serves me right. > >> > >>Should the question be: At what stage can we state that all maps appearing > >>in an atlas or anthology of maps in the western world were printed > >>uniformly to show north both drawn and printed at the "top" of the page? > >>Kit > > _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f X-Sender: jd1010247@pop.onemain.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Sat, 20 Apr 2002 16:55:47 -0400 To: maphist@geog.uu.nl From: "John W. Docktor" Subject: [MapHist] Holy Land Map Exhibit in New York Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 Open until July 21, 2002 in New York is the exhibit Borders and Boundaries: Maps of the Holy Land, 15th - 19th Centuries, in the Herbert & Eileen Bernard Museum, Congregation Emanu-El of the City of New York, One East 65th Street. A catalogue accompanies this exhibit, and Tom Suarez wrote one of the introductory essays. Among the 35 maps and views of the Holy Land on display are maps by Schedel, Waldseemüller, Münster, Gastaldi, Hogenberg, Plancius, Zaltieri, Ortelius, Montanus, Hondius, Visscher, and Stoopendaal. Museum hours are Sunday - Thursday 10:00 a.m. - 4:30 p.m., Friday 10:00 a.m. - 4:00 p.m., and Saturday 1:00 p.m. - 4:30 p.m. For further information please call 212-744-1400.

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John W. Docktor
Phone: 717-846-8997         Fax: 717-845-9337
jdocktor@cyberia.com

Cartography - Calendars of Events & Exhibitions: http://www.docktor.com/
Washington Map Society: http://www.washmap.org/
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 X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f From: "Charles Burroughs" To: Subject: RE: [MapHist] Query: When was map orientation changed to North at top? Date: Sat, 20 Apr 2002 18:27:18 -0400 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook CWS, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 Of all the responses I've seen to this query to date, I like this one the best, offered by Marcel van den Broecke: "In most cases, the choice was motivated by optimal coverage of the mapsheet." This response transcends both the "timeline" aspect of the question as well as any "provincialism" (i.e. geography) that may have entered into the decision as to how to orient "UP." Charles @ Stepladder _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f X-Sender: krogt@pop.geog.uu.nl (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Sun, 21 Apr 2002 20:52:06 +0200 To: maphist@geog.uu.nl From: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl (by way of Owner MapHist ) Subject: [MapHist] Ethnic maps Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 This message was too long because it consisted of two parts, the second part html-encoded. Please send all messages in plain text format. - Peter From: "Rodney Shirley" Date: Sat, 20 Apr 2002 21:19:24 +0100 I am posting a query about the availability of ethnic maps which has = come my way via Susan Koppelman, an academic of Tucson, Arizona.In any = responses please copy to Peter Thaler at thaler@hist.sdu.dk. Rodney Shirley rws@dial.pipex.com Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 14:42:30 +0200 From: Peter Thaler Subject: ethnic maps Dear colleagues: I am teaching a course in global identities, which = examines ethnic and national identities in different parts of the world. In = the course of this class, it has been very frustrating to search for maps on = ethnic settlement patterns in various countries and world regions. Most = "normal" atlases only supply very rudimentary overviews, such as one world map = showing the distribution of language families. There are solid = narrative works that include tables. But as I want to visualize the ethnic = mosaic in Afghanistan one week, the ethnic minority regions in China in another, = and the Berber pockets in North Africa in a third, I have found myself = spending an inordinate amount of time searching for such maps, and = often without success. I have found useful works for select regions, such as = Magocsi for East Central Europe and 'We, the People' for the US. But I am = wondering if any of you have experience with works that provide such = information on a more comprehensive, global basis. Even though I appreciate the = impossibility of fully representing ethnic diversity in a cartographic = manner, I do think it is difficult to do without this. Moseley's 'Atlas of the = World's Languages' is useful at times, but often puts linguistic details = above graphic representation and visibility. And since I have already raised one question, I might add = another. I am using John Breuilly's 'Nationalism and the State' as the = main textbook, because it is the only one I am aware of that covers = national identities in almost all regions of the world. Unfortunately, I feel = that his analysis is too strongly informed by his own very political = interpretation of nationalism, which downplays cultural or psychological = aspects, to name just two. Does anyone have experience with works with an = equally comprehensive focus but a different interpretive angle, which could = balance and supplement Breuilly? Best regards, Peter Thaler Associate Professor of History University of Southern Denmark Niels Bohrs Vej 9 DK-6700 Esbjerg Denmark thaler@hist.sdu.dk _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f X-Sender: jsk@pop.gamewood.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Sun, 21 Apr 2002 15:47:00 -0400 To: maphist@geog.uu.nl From: Joel Kovarsky Subject: Re: [MapHist] map orientation Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714

There were very few other early printed world maps with south at the
top although--as someone else has observed--several manuscript Arabic
maps adopted this orientation.

Rodney Shirley

The charts of Rotz's Boke of Idrography (c. 1542) were oriented with south at the top. When index map was done for The Roxburge Club 1981 facsimile, just that sheet was prepared with north at the top, "For ease of consultation...". I wonder about the conventions of other period works from the Dieppe school. I know this alters the thread of the initial query, which wondered when "north at the top" became the standard.

   Joel Kovarsky X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f X-Sender: deelong@mail.gci.net Date: Sun, 21 Apr 2002 18:33:15 -0800 To: maphist@geog.uu.nl From: Dee Longenbaugh Subject: Re: [MapHist] map orientation Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 Sorry, I seem to have lost Jim Enterline's post, but would love to know the sources for his study of Inuit maps. Arctic native maps are a great interest of mine. If you see this, Jim, would you please post to the list if you think it's of general interest, or to me privately. Thank you very much. Dee Longenbaugh -- The Observatory, ABAA 200 North Franklin Juneau, Alaska 99801 Telephone 907/586-9676 Fax 907/586-9606 deelong@alaska.com http://www.observatorybooks.com 1977-2002, our 25th year _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f X-Sender: jenterli/pop3.concentric.net@pop3.norton.antivirus X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.2 Date: Sun, 21 Apr 2002 23:28:17 -0400 To: maphist@geog.uu.nl From: James Enterline Subject: Re: [MapHist] map orientation Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 HI, Dee, The references are cited in my brand new book, just published by Johns Hopkins Univ. Press, titled _Erikson, Eskimos & Columbus: Medieval European Knowledge of America._ It may not be in stores yet, but it is on Barnes & Noble's web site: www.barnesandnoble.com Jim At 06:33 PM 04/21/02 -0800, you wrote: >Sorry, I seem to have lost Jim Enterline's post, but would love to know >the sources for his study of Inuit maps. Arctic native maps are a great >interest of mine. > If you see this, Jim, would you please post to the list if you > think it's of general interest, or to me privately. > Thank you very much. > Dee Longenbaugh >-- >The Observatory, ABAA >200 North Franklin >Juneau, Alaska 99801 >Telephone 907/586-9676 >Fax 907/586-9606 >deelong@alaska.com >http://www.observatorybooks.com >1977-2002, our 25th year _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f From: "J.B. Post" To: Subject: [MapHist] North at top Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 07:01:04 -0100 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714
   Many of Richard Eades Harrison's maps are "oriented" with other than north at the top.  His maps may be more like a view, but I consider them maps (is it time for "ruminations on the borderlands of cartography"?).  His maps for WW II campaigns can be viewing an area from any direction.
 
       J. B. Post
 
 X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 13:45:13 +0200 From: Geir Odden Organization: ETO X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (X11; U; SunOS 5.8 sun4u) X-Accept-Language: en To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Subject: Re: [MapHist] map orientation Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 James Enterline wrote: > The references are cited in my brand new book, just published by Johns > Hopkins Univ. Press, titled _Erikson, Eskimos & Columbus: Medieval European > Knowledge of America._ It may not be in stores yet, but it is on Barnes & > Noble's web site: > www.barnesandnoble.com Congratulations with your new book which looks temptating to buy ! Barnes & Noble sells it $9 cheaper than Amazon. From: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/stores/detail/-/books/080186660X/reviews/103-2890344-4660640#080186660x5000 Editorial Reviews -Thor Heyerdahl "James Enterline convinced me when he presented his interpretation of medieval maps of the Arctic region." Book Description: Why did medieval Europeans seem to have such specific knowledge about a land-even a continent-that their most daring adventurers had not yet discovered? Historians have long debated the sources of geographical information on which pre-Columbian European maps were based. Especially controversial is the question of the extent towhich indigenous peoples in the high Arctic, as well as Norse colonists in Greenland, contributed to Europeans' knowledge of America. In Erikson, Eskimos, and Columbus James Enterline presents new evidence that the Eskimos' surprisingly competent cartographic skills provided the basis for medieval maps of areas in America which no European had yet reached. He argues that the controversial Yale Vinland Map, madepublic in 1965, is just one of many pre-Columbian maps, all apparently recording Norse contact with America or native Americans. Based on an exhaustive chronological survey of early maps, Enterline shows how details in the coastline of what European mapmakers thought was Arctic Asiain fact correspond closely to features on the Arctic coast of North America. Likely to spark lively discussion, this book boldly challenges the history of European America's origins. It will appeal to historians, geographers, and all those interested in discovery, exploration, and maps. >From the Publisher "A thorough investigation of the evidence of Norse information about the New World and how this was transmitted to Europe. Perhaps the most novel idea is that the Norse may have learned mapmaking from the Inuit people; the most provocative is the author's discussion of the Vinland map, which in itself would make an important work. The book is logically and effectively organized, the scholarship is exemplary, and the writing style is readable and interesting."-Norman J. W. Thrower, UCLA About the Author James Robert Enterline is a mathematician and computer consultant who is well known for his work in the history of cartography. He is the author of Viking America. ----------------------------------------- Is there any plans for a eaven cheaper paperback edition ? Wouldn't Eiriksson, Inuits & Columbus be a more correct name for the book in the year 2002 ? Geir Odden _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f From: F.Herbert@RGS.ORG To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Subject: [MapHist] FW: Chart by Admiral Lord Nelson Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 14:12:43 +0100 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 > Valerie: > Is it any help, after an interval of 5 months, to know that the following item is in our Map Room ; and is it want you may be seeking?:- > 'A Chart of the Atlantic or Western Ocean [...] drawn from the latest > observations of the English, French, and Spanish Astronomers Wherein is > delineated the Track of His Majesty's Fleet, Commanded by the late > Viscount Nelson, K.B. [...] in pursuit of the Combined Fleets of France > and Spain 1805. A Course which in its consequences led to the Glorious > Victory of Trafalgar [...]' by William Heather (London : W. Faden, > Geographer to His Majesty and to H.R.H. the Prince of Wales, 12 August > 1807) ; engraved chart area 59 x 88 cm > > N.B.: "It is copied from His Lordship's original Manuscript, under His > Lordship's special directions, & is now offered to the public as the > slight tribute of an Individual to His Lordship's Fame & Memory." ; shows > "Track of H.M.S. Victory to the West Indies 1805" from 12 May (to SW of C. > St Vincent) to [7/8] June and "Track of H.M.S. Victory from West Indies > 1805" from 9 June to [18?] July (off C. Spartel), and then from 28 July > (off C. St Vincent) to 15 August (off Ushant) > > Francis > f.herbert@rgs.org > http://www.rgs.org [see 'Collections'/'Unlocking the Archives'] > > -----Original Message----- > From: David Cobb [SMTP:cobb@fas.harvard.edu] > Sent: 02 November 2001 13:40 > To: maphist@camail1.harvard.edu > Subject: Chart by Admiral Lord Nelson > > From: "Valerie Scott" > To: "Map History" > Subject: A chart by Admiral Lord Nelson > > Dear Maphisters > In the original 'Tooley's Dictionary' Admiral Lord Nelson is credited with > having drawn a chart of the Atlantic in 1805. I can't find any information > or confirmation of this in the literature and wondered if anyone out there > knows of this chart and, if so, whether it was ever printed and, if so, > where? Also, the correct title from the chart. > I am asking this in my capacity as editor of Vols III and IV of the > revised > ed. of 'Tooley's Dictionary'. > Thanks in anticipation > Valerie Scott > Map Collector Publications > The Nook, 74 High Street > Waddesdon, Bucks HP18 0JL > Tel: (0)1296 651997 Fax:(0)1296 658892 > E-mail: gp86@dial.pipex.com > ************************************************************************** > * > David A. Cobb Tel. 617.495.2417 > Harvard Map Collection FAX 617.496.0440 > Harvard College Library Email: > cobb@fas.harvard.edu > Cambridge, MA 02138 > HTTP://hcl.harvard.edu/maps > ************************** VERITAS > **************************************** _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f X-Sender: karrowr@mail.newberry.org X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 10:31:37 -0500 To: maphist@geog.uu.nl From: Robert Karrow Subject: [MapHist] DesBarres Atlantic Neptune Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 Re: Mr. Jeffreys' query: I did some careful measurements/overlays on a DesBarres chart of the coast of Maine some years ago and found the same thing -- coastlines a good match with the modern chart, longitudes off some (but you'd expect that), latitudes WAY OFF, like there was a mistake in marking the graticule. I guess the only thing that really surprises me about this is that the error wasn't discovered and corrected. Bob Karrow ____________________________________________ Robert W. Karrow, Jr., Curator of Special Collections and Curator of Maps, Roger & Julie Baskes Department of Special Collections, The Newberry Library, 60 W. Walton Street, Chicago, Illinois 60610-7324. Tel: 312-255-3554. FAX: 312-255-3646. E-Mail: KarrowR@newberry.org Our Web Page, including catalog of holdings cataloged since 1978: http://www.newberry.org _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f X-Sender: jenterli/pop3.concentric.net@pop3.norton.antivirus X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.2 Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 11:41:44 -0400 To: maphist@geog.uu.nl From: James Enterline Subject: Erikson, Eskimos & Columbus (was Re: [MapHist] map orientation) Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 At 01:45 PM 04/22/02 +0200, Geir Odden wrote: >. . . >Wouldn't Eiriksson, Inuits & Columbus be a more correct >name for the book in the year 2002 ? Yes it would, but all the old historical references use the Eskimo word throughout the book. And alliteration is import in a title according to the publisher. Anyway, I do make an apologia inside the book. Jim P.S.: I'm not aware of any paperback plans. _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f From: "Ronald Whistance-Smith" To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Cc: thaler@hist.sdu.dk Subject: Re: [MapHist] Ethnic maps Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 10:36:51 -0600 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 Though somewhat dated now, there is the following atlas which does cover all parts of the world. Soviet Union. Glavnoe upravlenie geodezii i kartografii. -Atlas narodov mira _/ [otv. red.: S.I. Bruk, V.S. Apenchenko] Glav. upr. geodezii i kartografii Gos. geol. kom-ta SSSR, In-t etnografii im. N.N. Miklukho-Maklaia Akademii nauk SSSR. Moskva, 1964. In addition, the same publisher issued large maps of Africa, Indonesia and the Philippines, and the former Soviet Union. I had thought there were more of these but failed to find them in searching on-line catalogues last evening. This is not copied to thaler@hist.sdu.dk Ron Whistance-Smith ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Sunday, April 21, 2002 12:52 PM Subject: [MapHist] Ethnic maps > This message was too long because it consisted of two parts, the second > part html-encoded. Please send all messages in plain text format. - Peter > > From: "Rodney Shirley" > Date: Sat, 20 Apr 2002 21:19:24 +0100 > > I am posting a query about the availability of ethnic maps which has = > come my way via Susan Koppelman, an academic of Tucson, Arizona.In any = > responses please copy to Peter Thaler at thaler@hist.sdu.dk. > > Rodney Shirley > rws@dial.pipex.com > > > > Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 14:42:30 +0200 > From: Peter Thaler > Subject: ethnic maps > > > Dear colleagues: > > I am teaching a course in global identities, which = > examines ethnic and > national identities in different parts of the world. In = > the course of this > class, it has been very frustrating to search for maps on = > ethnic settlement > patterns in various countries and world regions. Most = > "normal" atlases only > supply very rudimentary overviews, such as one world map = > showing the > distribution of language families. There are solid = > narrative works that > include tables. But as I want to visualize the ethnic = > mosaic in Afghanistan > one week, the ethnic minority regions in China in another, = > and the Berber > pockets in North Africa in a third, I have found myself = > spending an > inordinate amount of time searching for such maps, and = > often without > success. > > I have found useful works for select regions, such as = > Magocsi for East > Central Europe and 'We, the People' for the US. But I am = > wondering if any > of you have experience with works that provide such = > information on a more > comprehensive, global basis. Even though I appreciate the = > impossibility of > fully representing ethnic diversity in a cartographic = > manner, I do think it > is difficult to do without this. Moseley's 'Atlas of the = > World's Languages' > is useful at times, but often puts linguistic details = > above graphic > representation and visibility. > > And since I have already raised one question, I might add = > another. I am > using John Breuilly's 'Nationalism and the State' as the = > main textbook, > because it is the only one I am aware of that covers = > national identities in > almost all regions of the world. Unfortunately, I feel = > that his analysis is > too strongly informed by his own very political = > interpretation of > nationalism, which downplays cultural or psychological = > aspects, to name just > two. Does anyone have experience with works with an = > equally comprehensive > focus but a different interpretive angle, which could = > balance and supplement > Breuilly? > > Best regards, > > Peter Thaler > Associate Professor of History > University of Southern Denmark > Niels Bohrs Vej 9 > DK-6700 Esbjerg > Denmark > thaler@hist.sdu.dk > > _______________________________________________________________ > MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography > hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. > The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of > the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of > Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for > the views of the author. > List Information: http://www.maphist.nl _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 12:28:45 -0500 From: John Dunlevy User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; WinNT4.0; en-US; rv:1.0rc1) Gecko/20020417 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en To: maphist@geog.uu.nl CC: thaler@hist.sdu.dk Subject: Re: [MapHist] Ethnic maps Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 The CIA publishes several ethnolinguistic maps. See . The maps that are likely to be of particular interest are "Ethnolinguistic Groups in Afghanistan" from 1997, "Africa: Ethnolinguistic Groups" from 1996 (though I don't imagine it's too detailed when it comes to Berber regions), and "Chinese Linguistic Groups" from 1990. Ronald Whistance-Smith wrote: > Though somewhat dated now, there is the following atlas which does cover all > parts of the world. > Soviet Union. Glavnoe upravlenie geodezii i kartografii. > -Atlas narodov mira _/ [otv. red.: S.I. Bruk, V.S. Apenchenko] Glav. upr. > geodezii i kartografii Gos. geol. kom-ta SSSR, In-t etnografii im. N.N. > Miklukho-Maklaia Akademii nauk SSSR. > Moskva, 1964. > > In addition, the same publisher issued large maps of Africa, Indonesia and > the Philippines, and the former Soviet Union. I had thought there were more > of these but failed to find them in searching on-line catalogues last > evening. > > This is not copied to thaler@hist.sdu.dk > > Ron Whistance-Smith > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Sunday, April 21, 2002 12:52 PM > Subject: [MapHist] Ethnic maps > > > >>This message was too long because it consisted of two parts, the second >>part html-encoded. Please send all messages in plain text format. - Peter >> >>From: "Rodney Shirley" >>Date: Sat, 20 Apr 2002 21:19:24 +0100 >> >>I am posting a query about the availability of ethnic maps which has = >>come my way via Susan Koppelman, an academic of Tucson, Arizona.In any = >>responses please copy to Peter Thaler at thaler@hist.sdu.dk. >> >>Rodney Shirley >>rws@dial.pipex.com >> >> >> >> Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 14:42:30 +0200 >> From: Peter Thaler >> Subject: ethnic maps >> >> >> Dear colleagues: >> >> I am teaching a course in global identities, which = >>examines ethnic and >> national identities in different parts of the world. In = >>the course of this >> class, it has been very frustrating to search for maps on = >>ethnic settlement >> patterns in various countries and world regions. Most = >>"normal" atlases only >> supply very rudimentary overviews, such as one world map = >>showing the >> distribution of language families. There are solid = >>narrative works that >> include tables. But as I want to visualize the ethnic = >>mosaic in Afghanistan >> one week, the ethnic minority regions in China in another, > > = > >>and the Berber >> pockets in North Africa in a third, I have found myself = >>spending an >> inordinate amount of time searching for such maps, and = >>often without >> success. >> >> I have found useful works for select regions, such as = >>Magocsi for East >> Central Europe and 'We, the People' for the US. But I am = >>wondering if any >> of you have experience with works that provide such = >>information on a more >> comprehensive, global basis. Even though I appreciate the > > = > >>impossibility of >> fully representing ethnic diversity in a cartographic = >>manner, I do think it >> is difficult to do without this. Moseley's 'Atlas of the = >>World's Languages' >> is useful at times, but often puts linguistic details = >>above graphic >> representation and visibility. >> >> And since I have already raised one question, I might add = >>another. I am >> using John Breuilly's 'Nationalism and the State' as the = >>main textbook, >> because it is the only one I am aware of that covers = >>national identities in >> almost all regions of the world. Unfortunately, I feel = >>that his analysis is >> too strongly informed by his own very political = >>interpretation of >> nationalism, which downplays cultural or psychological = >>aspects, to name just >> two. Does anyone have experience with works with an = >>equally comprehensive >> focus but a different interpretive angle, which could = >>balance and supplement >> Breuilly? >> >> Best regards, >> >> Peter Thaler >> Associate Professor of History >> University of Southern Denmark >> Niels Bohrs Vej 9 >> DK-6700 Esbjerg >> Denmark >> thaler@hist.sdu.dk = _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 13:50:13 -0500 From: John Dunlevy User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; WinNT4.0; en-US; rv:1.0rc1) Gecko/20020417 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en To: maphist@geog.uu.nl CC: thaler@hist.sdu.dk Subject: Re: [MapHist] Ethnic maps Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 I wrote: > Ethnolinguistic Groups" from 1996 (though I don't imagine it's Oops -- insert very important "not" here. > too detailed when it comes to Berber regions), and "Chinese _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 15:45:24 -0700 (PDT) From: Jay Lester Subject: [MapHist] I've been helped!!! with digital images To: MapHist Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 My wonderful MapHist friends, Thank each and every one of you who replied with fantastic (i.e. economical and understandable) suggestions and solutions for helping me get my digital images fixed. There has been superb advice on the actual photography process as well as wonderful postprocesing instructions to use. And seriously, I am extremely grateful for the elemenantary language and step by step instructions that will allow me to succeed. I believe those responses are much more edifying than the lone reply that stated something to the effect, "you obviously need professional help; go out and spend a few hundred bucks." I've not yet had the opportunity to try them all out (a week in late May looks promising!) but I've saved them all and can't hardly wait. Best regards, Jay L. ===== Jay Lester Chapel Hill, NC mapsguy@yahoo.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Games - play chess, backgammon, pool and more http://games.yahoo.com/ _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 07:49:12 +0200 From: Wolfgang Koeberer User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; de-DE; rv:0.9.4) Gecko/20011019 Netscape6/6.2 X-Accept-Language: de-DE To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Subject: [MapHist] map orientation Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 May I add another observation about map orientation: Maps in Dutch sea atlases of the 16. and 17. century (e.g. Waghenaer`s "Sea Mirrour" and Blaeu`s "The Sea Beacon") were mostly oriented with the land at the top. This supposedly had a very practical reason: in this way the captain could easily visualize what lay ahead of the ship when sailing towards the coast and towards his destination. This clearly was the most dangerous part of any voyage and the one where charts were needed and used most. W.Köberer _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 07:56:05 -0400 From: Doug McIlroy To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Subject: [MapHist] I've been helped!!! with digital images Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 Jay Lester wrote: >Thank each and every one of you who replied with fantastic (i.e. economical and understandable) suggestions and solutions for helping me get my digital images fixed. There has been superb advice on the actual photography process as well as wonderful postprocesing instructions to use. And seriously, I am extremely grateful for the elemenantary language and step by step instructions that will allow me to succeed. If the advice turns out to be as useful as you obviously expect it to be, please don't keep it a secret. A digest of the advice, or a URL for the advice would be welcome on maphist. Doug McIlroy _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f From: "Ronald Whistance-Smith" To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Subject: Re: [MapHist] Ethnic maps Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 09:47:19 -0600 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 Here is a list of other ethnic distribution maps for all or parts of Europe. Most are in much greater detail of course, than what is possible in atlas format. Also these take us back to a situation in the late 1930s. For the purpose originally stated, overall distributions within a country may be preferred but samplings of more detailed distributions might be helpful. These maps are from the William C. Wonders Map Collection, University of Alberta, but notes on other location I was able to check, are appended. A search of the LC on-line catalogue using Keyword search for "ethnic AND distribution" in title and subject should yield more than one could ever use including the sources for the outset maps on the CIA maps of countries. Ron 1. Carte Ethnique et Linquistique de L'Europe Centrale stablié en collaboration sous la direction de Charles Burky, Geneve, 1937. 1:2,000,000 The map appears to have been removed from a journal or a book. It has ragged edges on three sides. 2. Jugoslawien - Deutsche Siedlungsgebiete / bearbeitet von der Publikationsstelle Wien. [Vienna: s.n., 1941] Complete in 13 sheets with index at lower right of each sheet. Overprinted on sheets of the Generalkarte v. Mitteleuropa, Balkan, topographic editions. 1:200,000 / hergestellt im Auftrage Gen St d H Abt f Kr Kart und Verm Wes. Condition is excellent. Copy in Library of Congress and UBC. 3. Volkstum [Ethnic distribution]. Vienna: s.n., 1943. Eleven sheets as follows: I-35; J-33 to J-35; K-33 to K-39. Overprinted on Weltkarte 1:1,000,000 sheets without topography. Not located in LC. 4. Volkstumskarte von Rumanien / bearbeitet von Wilfried Krallert. [Vienna?: s.n., 1939?] Forty three of 44 sheets (lacks sheet 18). Overprinted on sheets of the Generalkarte v. Mitteleuropa 1:200,000 without topography. Condition is excellent. Copy in LC. 5. Volkstumskarte der Slowakei / unter Mitarbeit von E. Brunner ... [et al.]; bearbeitet von Wilfried Krallert auf Grund der Nationalitatsangabe der Zahlung der Tschechoslowakei von 1930. [Vienna?: s.n.], 1941. Complete in 9 sheets. Overprinted on sheets of the Generalkarte v. Mitteleuropa, 1:200,000 without relief. Condition is excellent. _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 20:56:04 +0200 From: TÖRÖK Zsolt X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Subject: Re: [MapHist] Query: map orientation Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 The 'common orientation to North' is clearly a convention in cartography. It is actually more and more common to choose this orientation, especially in medium and small scale map making. Historically the influence of antique geography etc. has been mentioned. I think that chorographical and topographical surveys (from 16th century) also greatly contributed to the acceptance of the convention: the common orientation of the map sheets had great advantage in practice. Relating to convention another important point should be mentioned: the acceptance of any orientation as a convention is a clear indicator of the social dimension of cartography, or better cartographies. Driving on the left side is still possible in some countries, so why should we take a convention as an universally rational rule of map making? On the other hand, we generally follow traffic rules, and it is much safer to do so... Zsolt Török map and globe maker http://lazarus.elte.hu/~zoltorok Jack Mills wrote: > > Earliest maps were oriented with East at the top. When did the common > orientation change to North at the top? Please let me know. Thanks in > advance. > > Best wishes, > > Jack Mills > > Coordinator > Office of Research Services, > Geographic Information Systems Lab > http://www.uttyler.edu/GIS/index.htm > The University of Texas at Tyler > 3900 University Blvd Room BUS 205 > Tyler TX 75799-0001 > > Lab 903/566-7366 > Fax 903/565-5537 > _______________________________________________________________ > MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography > hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. > The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of > the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of > Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for > the views of the author. > List Information: http://www.maphist.nl _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 12:10:18 -0700 (PDT) From: Jay Lester Subject: Re: [MapHist] I've been helped!!! I'll post a synopsis next month To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 --- Doug McIlroy wrote: > > If the advice turns out to be as useful as you obviously expect it > to be, please don't keep it a secret. A digest of the advice, or > a URL for the advice would be welcome on maphist. > > Doug McIlroy > Hi Doug, I will indeed be pleased to make a MapHist post with a URL link. Don't hold your breath! But certainly within the next month. Thanks so much. Jay L. ===== Jay Lester Chapel Hill, NC mapsguy@yahoo.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Games - play chess, backgammon, pool and more http://games.yahoo.com/ _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f From: Ed Bradford To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 16:17:48 -0400 Subject: Re: [MapHist] I've been helped!!! with digital images X-Mailer: Opera 6.01 build 1041 Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 Both Corel PhotoPaint and Adobe Photoshop support a "skew" transformation where the shape of a masked area can be changed. I took one of Jay's pictures that was narrower at the top than the bottom and "widened" the top with Photoshop. I just drew a mask around it and edit/transform/skew it. Color changes are done with image/adjust/(a whole bunch of possibilities) I am a complete amature at this, but the results with photoshop don't look bad. Ed Bradford 4/23/2002 7:56:05 AM, Doug McIlroy wrote: > >Jay Lester wrote: >>Thank each and every one of you who replied with fantastic (i.e. >economical and understandable) suggestions and solutions for helping me >get my digital images fixed. There has been superb advice on the actual >photography process as well as wonderful postprocesing instructions to >use. And seriously, I am extremely grateful for the elemenantary >language and step by step instructions that will allow me to succeed. > >If the advice turns out to be as useful as you obviously expect it >to be, please don't keep it a secret. A digest of the advice, or >a URL for the advice would be welcome on maphist. > >Doug McIlroy >_______________________________________________________________ >MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography >hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. >The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of >the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of >Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for >the views of the author. >List Information: http://www.maphist.nl > _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 13:34:01 -0700 From: Chris Hermansen Organization: Timberline Forest Inventory Consultants X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (X11; U; SunOS 5.7 sun4u) X-Accept-Language: en, fr, fr-FR, fr-CA, it, es To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Subject: Re: [MapHist] I've been helped!!! with digital images Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 Ed Bradford wrote: > > Both Corel PhotoPaint and Adobe Photoshop support a "skew" transformation > where the shape of a masked area can be changed. I took one of Jay's pictures > that was narrower at the top than the bottom and "widened" the top with > Photoshop. I just drew a mask around it and edit/transform/skew it. > > Color changes are done with image/adjust/(a whole bunch of possibilities) For those of you who are reluctant to spend a bunch of money on programs like PhotoPaint or Photoshop but are willing to invest a bit of sweat, there's always the free GIMP which runs on Linux, various Unixes, and apparently even Windows under Cygwin. GIMP is great, IMHO, and there are lots of very good books on how to use it. -- Regards, Chris Hermansen · Timberline Forest Inventory Consultants 401 - 958 West 8th Avenue · Vancouver B.C. CANADA V5Z 1E5 mailto:clh@timberline.ca · Tel: +1 604 714 2878 http://www.timberline.ca · FAX: +1 604 733 0634 C'est ma façon de parler. _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 22:14:24 +0100 From: Doug Weller X-Mailer: The Bat! (v1.60c) Personal To: "maphist@geog.uu.nl" Subject: [MapHist] Pope Urban's Map Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 Has this ever been discussed on the list? In particular, some fantastic claims I've seen that it shows Georgia? Thanks. Doug -- Doug Weller Moderator, sci.archaeology.moderated Submissions to:sci-archaeology-moderated@medieval.org Doug's Archaeology Site: http://www.ramtops.demon.co.uk Co-owner UK-Schools mailing list: email me for details _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f From: Ethan.Gomberg@cityoforlando.net Subject: Re: [MapHist] Pope Urban's Map To: maphist@geog.uu.nl X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Release 5.0.4 June 8, 2000 Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 07:19:56 -0400 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on OrlMailSvc/Orlando(Release 5.0.8 |June 18, 2001) at 04/24/2002 07:20:09 AM Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 Is there a place online that we could see a copy of Pope Urban's Map? By Pope Urban, I imagine you refer to Pope Urban IV, the one that is claimed to be the main supporter of Europe's first "crusade" against Islam in the early 11th century. ____________________________________________________ Ethan M. Gomberg City GIS, City of Orlando -Engineering Bureau 400 S. Orange Ave. Orlando, FL 32802 USA TEL 407.246.3064 FAX 407.246.2892 ethan.gomberg@cityoforlando.net Check out our website at http://www.cityoforlando.net/public_works/esd/gis Doug Weller mon.co.uk> cc: Sent by: Subject: [MapHist] Pope Urban's Map owner-maphist@geog. uu.nl 04/23/2002 05:14 PM Please respond to maphist Has this ever been discussed on the list? In particular, some fantastic claims I've seen that it shows Georgia? Thanks. Doug -- Doug Weller Moderator, sci.archaeology.moderated Submissions to:sci-archaeology-moderated@medieval.org Doug's Archaeology Site: http://www.ramtops.demon.co.uk Co-owner UK-Schools mailing list: email me for details _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f X-Sender: krogt@pop.geog.uu.nl X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 12:14:15 +0200 To: maphist@geog.uu.nl From: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl (by way of Peter van der Krogt ) Subject: [MapHist] Publications by Arthur Dürst X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by pop.geog.uu.nl id MAA07619 Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 Non-member submission from [duerst@bluewin.ch] Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Publishings_from_Arthur_D=FCrst_/_Publikationen_von_Arthur?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?_D=FCrst?= Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 22:29:04 +0200 =============================== Dear Maphister and friends of map history =============================== We receive a lot of enquiries from friends of your round for some publishings and scrips from our father (Arthur Dürst). We want to thank you for your interest. It is a very good feeling to see that our father and his work are still of interest. Thank you. We tried to make a list of all scripts that we have and to put it in our online-catalogue. We hope that we could help you with this service for your work and research. Our family would enjoy a visit from you on www.duerst.ch or directly in our online-catalogue under www.duerst.ch/shop (catalogue exists only in German) With best regards and many thanks for your solidarity Matthias Dürst, Zürich =============================== Liebe Maphister und Kartographen-Freunde, =============================== Von vielen Freunden aus Ihrer Runde gelangen immer wieder Anfragen an uns, über noch erhältliche Publikationen und Schriften unseres Vaters (Arthur Dürst). Für Ihr Interesse möchten wir Ihnen an dieser Stelle ganz herzlich danken. Es ist für uns ein sehr schönes Zeichen zu spüren, dass das Interesse an unserem Vater und seinem Schaffen bei Ihnen allgegenwärtig ist. Herzlichen Dank dafür. Aufgrund Ihrer diversen Anfragen und Interessensbekundungen haben wir versucht alle noch verfügbaren Werke online zu erfassen und für Sie in einem Shop zu integrieren. Gerne hoffen wir Ihnen mit diesem Angebot Ihre Arbeit und Suche ein wenig zu erleichtern. Unsere Familie freut sich auf einen Besuch auf www.duerst.ch oder direkt im Online-Katalog unter www.duerst.ch/shop Mit freundschaftlichen Grüssen und bestem Dank für Ihre Verbundenheit Matthias Dürst, Zürich _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl From: RUTH.MOORS@student.kuleuven.ac.be X-Authentication-Warning: webmail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be: nobody set sender to m9713769@urc1.cc.kuleuven.ac.be using -f To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Subject: [MapHist] Ferraris maps Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 18:22:36 +0200 (CEST) User-Agent: IMP/PHP IMAP webmail program 2.2.7-cvs X-Originating-IP: 10.67.77.36 Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 Hello, At the moment, I’m working on my thesis in which I compare the Ferraris maps with each other and with present geography, and in which I try to trace and explain the perceptible differences. However, I still have a question about the maps that were made by Ferraris in the 18th century. These maps cover the entire territory of Belgium and were made in 3 different documents: one for the empress Maria-Theresia, one for the governor Charles de Lorraine, and the last one consists of the documents that were made on the field. Does anybody know if Ferraris wrote some kind of log-book ? (I am not referring to the “Mémoires”…) In the 19th century, the Dutchmen made a copy of the documents that belonged to the empress. Does anybody know why and when exactly this copy was made? Or does anybody know an acceptable theory to explain the making of this copy? Thanks a lot in advance for your reply. Kind regards Ruth Moors Student Catholic University Leuven Belgium) _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 09:16:20 +0200 To: maphist@geog.uu.nl From: Wouter Bracke Subject: Re: [MapHist] Ferraris maps X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by pop.geog.uu.nl id JAA25227 Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 A copy of the manuscript map was sent by the Dutch government to the Dépôt de la Guerre (now Nationaal Geografisch Instituut, Terkameren abbey 13, 1000 Brussels) in 1859. It is still there today. See A. de Smet, le Général-Comte de Ferraris et la carte des Pays-Bas autrichiens, Industrie 20 (1966) 475-487 (reprint Album Antoine de Smet, Brussels, 1974, 347-362) Wouter Bracke Kaarten en Plannen Koninklijke Bibliotheek van België At 18:22 25/04/02 +0200, you wrote: >Hello, > >At the moment, I’m working on my thesis in which I compare the Ferraris maps >with each other and with present geography, and in which I try to trace and >explain the perceptible differences. >However, I still have a question about the maps that were made by Ferraris in >the 18th century. >These maps cover the entire territory of Belgium and were made in 3 different >documents: one for the empress Maria-Theresia, one for the governor >Charles de >Lorraine, and the last one consists of the documents that were made on the >field. >Does anybody know if Ferraris wrote some kind of log-book ? (I am not >referring >to the “Mémoires”…) > >In the 19th century, the Dutchmen made a copy of the documents that >belonged to >the empress. >Does anybody know why and when exactly this copy was made? >Or does anybody know an acceptable theory to explain the making of this copy? > >Thanks a lot in advance for your reply. > >Kind regards > > >Ruth Moors >Student Catholic University Leuven Belgium) > >_______________________________________________________________ >MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography >hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. >The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of >the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of >Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for >the views of the author. >List Information: http://www.maphist.nl _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 10:59:17 +0200 To: maphist@geog.uu.nl From: Wouter Bracke Subject: Re: [MapHist] Ferraris maps X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by pop.geog.uu.nl id KAA04264 Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 I forgot to mention that you should read (if you not have done so already) Cl. Lemoine-Isabeau, Les militaires et la cartographie des Pays-Bas méridionaux et de la Principauté de Liège à la fin du XVIIe et au XVIIIe siècle, Brussels 1984. Wouter Bracke At 18:22 25/04/02 +0200, you wrote: >Hello, > >At the moment, I’m working on my thesis in which I compare the Ferraris maps >with each other and with present geography, and in which I try to trace and >explain the perceptible differences. >However, I still have a question about the maps that were made by Ferraris in >the 18th century. >These maps cover the entire territory of Belgium and were made in 3 different >documents: one for the empress Maria-Theresia, one for the governor >Charles de >Lorraine, and the last one consists of the documents that were made on the >field. >Does anybody know if Ferraris wrote some kind of log-book ? (I am not >referring >to the “Mémoires”…) > >In the 19th century, the Dutchmen made a copy of the documents that >belonged to >the empress. >Does anybody know why and when exactly this copy was made? >Or does anybody know an acceptable theory to explain the making of this copy? > >Thanks a lot in advance for your reply. > >Kind regards > > >Ruth Moors >Student Catholic University Leuven Belgium) > >_______________________________________________________________ >MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography >hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. >The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of >the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of >Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for >the views of the author. >List Information: http://www.maphist.nl _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f X-Sender: krogt@pop.geog.uu.nl X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 13:29:03 +0200 To: maphist@geog.uu.nl From: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl (by way of Peter van der Krogt ) Subject: [MapHist] 5th European Map Fair Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 Non-member submission from ["Stichting Historische Cartografie van de Nederlanden" ] =20 Fifth European Map Fair 22 - 23 november 2002 in cooperation with the Museum of Breda "Breda 750" commemorating the birth of the town =20 Already for the fifth time this Map Fair, organized in the Netherlands, = will take place in the beautifully restored "Grote of Onze Lieve Vrouwe = Kerk", situated in the historical centre of Breda. The number of = participating map dealers has known a steady increase since the first = Map Fair. From the start the offers for sale have been of a great = variety, such as loose maps and prints, maps either framed or in = passe-partouts, rare atlases, a wide selection of modern = reference-books, in addition to globes original ones as well as in = facsimile and large wall maps.=20 Next to antiquarian booksellers also restoration-studio's and = non-profit-institutions concerning historical cartography were = participating. Four times The Foundation Historical Cartography of the = Netherlands succeeded in organizing an attractive exhibition combined = with the Fair. This year the Fifth European Map Fair will be closely connected with the = 750th anniversary of Breda as a town. Within the scope of a series of = activities beginning in May, from September 27th until December 1st 2002 = the Museum of Breda will exhibit a large collection of cartographical = and topographical documents and pictures entitled "Breda in Kaart" = (Breda in Maps), showing the vicissitudes of 750 years history of Breda. = The exhibition in the "Grote Kerk' during the Map Fair will also pay = attention to the subject "Breda in Kaart' Information Concerning the Map Fair: Secretariat Foundation Historical Cartography = of the Netherlands, Meysberg 12, NL 4861 BP Chaam, tel. 31.161.492008, = e-mail avegeraat@hotmail.com Concerning "Breda 750" http://www.bredadigitaal.nl/breda750; = http://www.breda-museum.nl _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 07:42:47 -0400 From: "Duane F. Marble" Organization: OSU Center for Mapping X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en,pdf To: maphist Subject: [MapHist] Chinese Comments on Menzies Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 >From People's Daily Online: http://english.peopledaily.com.cn/200203/07/print20020307_91604.html Chinese Explorer May Redraw Map of History Chinese historians and navigation experts are preparing to rewrite the history books after a British historian's claim that Chinese explorers found America 72 years before Christopher Columbus. An ancient chart to be proved According to the London-based Daily Telegraph on Monday, Gavin Menzies, a former submarine commander and an amateur historian, has pointed to an ancient chart to prove that Chinese admiral Zheng He had discovered most parts of the world by the mid-15th century and reached America 72 years earlier than Columbus. Li Xiaocong, deputy-director of the China Ancient History Research Center of Beijing University, said that if experts confirmed the authenticity of the chart which was claimed to be drawn in 1459, navigation history would be rewritten. The chart, according to the report, clearly marked the location of the Cape of Good Hope, with detailed depiction of Chinese expeditionary vessels and included navigation notes which recorded that a fleet once navigated across Cape of Good Hope to reach Cape Verde Islands. Menzies will present his findings at Britain's Royal Geographical Society on March 15 to an audience of more than 200 scholars, academicians and publishers. "So far I cannot say Menzies' new view is well-founded because I have not seen that chart and as far as I know, China lacks charts drawn in the mid-15th century. I cannot offer relevant evidence to support his view," Li said. A truth hidden in documents destroyed Chen Yanhang, director of the Chinese Ancient Vessel Research Center said, "I suppose the new view might be true because records show that the vessel used by admiral Zheng He was 126 meters long and 51.5 meters wide, big and advanced enough to reach America. "In fact the domestic academic field raised the idea as early as the 1980s that the farthest point Zheng He's fleet reached was the Cape of Good Hope, but not the widely accepted Mombasa. Actually, where Zheng He reached has always been a disputed issue. Therefore we rule out the possibility that he set foot in America, " he continued. Zhu Jianxiu, research fellow with Zheng He Research Society, said, "The major task for us now is to make sure the chart was really drawn in 1459 and truly used by Zheng He. If we can prove the two points mentioned above, maybe we can say Menzies is right." Zhang Rujie, professor of geodesic, photogrammetry and cartographic science and technology at Wuhan University, said that he doubted Menzies' viewpoint. He explained that Zheng He was once a eunuch for Emperor Yongli of the Ming Dynasty (1368-1644) before he was made an admiral. He was well-known at the time and his life was recorded in detail in the book "The History of Ming Dynasty". "In addition, Zheng He also recorded his navigation routes himself. If he really had been to America, why have we never found any clue in historical records?" he asked. But Chen Yanhang said that according to historical records, Liu Daxia, a official and contemporary of Zheng He, strongly opposed his navigation and burned reports Zheng had written to the throne, as well as navigation notes recorded by Zheng himself. "It is still unknown that the truth was hidden in the documents which had already been destroyed," he added. -- Dr. Duane F. Marble Professor Emeritus of Geography Telephone: 614-292-4419 Center for Mapping Fax: 614-292-8062 The Ohio State University 1216 Kinnear Road Email: marble.1@osu.edu Columbus, Ohio 43212 The (first) act of mapping was as profound as the invention of a number system. The use of a reduced, substitute space for that of reality, even when both can be seen, is an impressive act in itself; but the really awesome event was the similar representation of distant, out of sight features. The combination of the reduction of reality and the construction of an analogical space is an attainment in abstract thinking of a very high order indeed, for it enables one to discover structures that would remain unknown if not mapped. -- Arthur Robinson, Early Thematic Mapping in the History of Cartography _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f X-Sender: maphist@mail.maphist.nl (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 22:05:17 +0200 To: maphist@geog.uu.nl From: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl (by way of List-owner MapHist ) Subject: [MapHist] MapForum 15 Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 Non-member submission from ["MapForum.Com" ] Date: Sat, 27 Apr 2002 19:26:12 +0100 The latest issue of MapFoum.Com is now up at: http://www.mapforum.com Articles include: Collations: Six more Colom sea-atlases Checklist: Maps of New England 1700-1780 Curiosities: Maps with Flaps Ephemera: Two adverts from Thomas Jefferys We hope you find it interesting. -- The Editor MapForum.Com http://www.mapforum.com mapforum@btinternet.com _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl X-Authentication-Warning: pop.geog.uu.nl: mojo set sender to owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl using -f User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/9.0.2509 Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 13:25:44 -0400 Subject: Re: [MapHist] Help with digital images From: Helen Glazer To: Maphist X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by pop.geog.uu.nl id TAA04613 Sender: owner-maphist@geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.nl X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 On 4/23/02 7:56 AM, "Doug McIlroy" wrote: > Jay Lester wrote: >> Thank each and every one of you who replied with fantastic (i.e. > economical and understandable) suggestions and solutions for helping me > get my digital images fixed. There has been superb advice on the actual > photography process as well as wonderful postprocesing instructions to > use. And seriously, I am extremely grateful for the elemenantary > language and step by step instructions that will allow me to succeed. > > If the advice turns out to be as useful as you obviously expect it > to be, please don't keep it a secret. A digest of the advice, or > a URL for the advice would be welcome on maphist. > > Doug McIlroy Since there seems to be interest in this topic, I have posted a new item on our Collector's Q & A page called "Improving Digital Photos of Maps." See: http://www.georgeglazer.com/newyork/services/qanda.html Scroll to the bottom of the page where you'll see a paraphrase of Jay's query about how to fix maps with my answer. If there is anything you don't understand or have other question let me know at helen@georgeglazer.com. Regards, Helen Glazer Ø Ø Ø Ø Ø Ø Ø Ø Ø Ø Ø Ø Ø Ø Ø Helen Glazer, Webmaster George Glazer Gallery Antique Globes, Maps & Prints http://www.georgeglazer.com helen@georgeglazer.com Ø Ø Ø Ø Ø Ø Ø Ø Ø Ø Ø Ø Ø Ø Ø _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geographical Sciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl