X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2 X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Subject: [MapHist] Workshop on Spanish Cadastral Mapping (18th-20th centuries) in Barcelona Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2005 09:12:54 +0200 X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: Workshop on Spanish Cadastral Mapping (18th-20th centuries) in Barcelona Thread-Index: AcWuw94FoYWBIsAORZ+JwyLD4+BL0w== From: "Montaner, Carme" To: X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.info X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.501 required=6.31 tests=[AWL=-0.589, HTML_50_60=0.087, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001] X-Spam-Level: Workshop on Spanish Cadastral Mapping (18th-20th centuries) in Barcelona

Workshop on Spanish Cadastral Mapping (18th-20th centuries)
Institut Cartogràfic de Catalunya (Barcelona, Spain)
October 20-21, 2005
More information, please contact www.icc.es  or  cserra@icc.es

Participants:

Roger Kain (U. Exeter): Cadastral mapping in Europe: property maps in the service of the state
C. Camarero (U. Autónoma de Madrid): La cartografía de los catastros españoles del siglo XVIII
J. Burgueño (U. de Lleida): Cartografia cadastral de la província de Lleida (segles XVIII-XIX)
I. Muro (U. Rovira i Virgili): Las técnicas de levantamiento de los geómetras
L. Urteaga (U. de Barcelona): El coste económico de los trabajos catastrales a mediados del siglo XIX
R. Vallejo (U. de Vigo): La contribución territorial urbana y el catastro (1893-1933)
F. Nadal (U.de Barcelona): Los atlas parcelarios de la provincia de Barcelona (1851-1883)
T. Vidal (U. de Barcelona): El mapa catastral de Menorca
E. Tello; R. Garrabou, X. Cussó (U. de Barcelona)  : Una interpretació a llarg termini dels canvis d’usos del sòl a cinc municipis del Vallès central i oriental, entre 1850 i l’actualitat ,des del punt de vista del canvi del model energètic del sistema agrari

F.Fernandez (U.de Oviedo): Fotografía aérea y catastro en España
A. Ferrer; A. Nieto (U. de Granada): Cartografía catastral en la provincia de Granada
J. Bernat (O. Regional del Cadastre): Cartografia Cadastral urbana al segle XX
C. Fidalgo (U. Autónoma de Madrid): Estudios de vegetación a partir de la cartografía catastral
M. Badia; F. Rodríguez  (U. de Barcelona): Metodologia emparada i resultats obtinguts pel tractament en SIG de la cartografia cadastral històrica

 X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2 X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Date: Thu, 01 Sep 2005 08:15:02 -0400 From: Joel Kovarsky User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.6 (Windows/20050716) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en To: MapHist Subject: [MapHist] Google Print vs. Onsite Collections X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.info X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0 required=6.31 tests=[none] X-Spam-Level: For some of you who might be woried about the disappearance of onsite collections, this article may offer a bit of encouragement: . Joel Kovarsky _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.info X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2 X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl From: "Curt Griggs" To: Subject: Re: [MapHist] Google Print vs. Onsite Collections Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2005 10:42:37 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1506 X-PMX-Version: 5.0.0.137324, Antispam-Engine: 2.0.3.2, Antispam-Data: 2005.9.1.19 X-PerlMx-Spam: Gauge=IIIIIII, Probability=7%, Report='__CT 0, __CTE 0, __CTYPE_CHARSET_QUOTED 0, __CT_TEXT_PLAIN 0, __HAS_MSGID 0, __HAS_MSMAIL_PRI 0, __HAS_X_MAILER 0, __HAS_X_PRIORITY 0, __MIME_TEXT_ONLY 0, __MIME_VERSION 0, __SANE_MSGID 0, __STOCK_CRUFT 0' X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.info X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.445 required=6.31 tests=[AWL=-0.445] X-Spam-Level: An interesting article, but I disagree with the premise that the researcher would never have found the book using an electronic search. First, she was very lucky that the book was immediately above the book she was seeking, a most serendipitous event, as the author admits. With a listing of the 186 book titles on screen, it would be very fast to scan and find the same book title. Additionally, she may have seen other titles relevant to her search that she missed on the shelf . Computer search engines are quickly getting better at satisfying users find what they are looking for. Have you noticed that Google will suggest another search with alternate spelling? That is just the tip of the iceberg for the developments we'll see in the not too distant future. Another idea would be to simply, and transparently to the user, add the results from the alternate search along with the first search results. This is what I do with map searches on oldmaps.com. For example, a search for "orbvs" will return all title containing the words orbvs, orbus, orbuf, and orbvf. As search engines evolve expert knowledge will be transparently built into them giving us every better keyword searches. Soon we'll be able to control our searches by language, synonym or antonyms, phrases, and much more. These type of electronic searches will someday make pawing through library book shelves a dusty and wildly satisfying for Jean-Luc Picard, but less so for most of us. Curt Griggs ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joel Kovarsky" To: "MapHist" Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2005 5:15 AM Subject: [MapHist] Google Print vs. Onsite Collections > For some of you who might be woried about the disappearance of onsite > collections, this article may offer a bit of encouragement: > . > > Joel Kovarsky > > _______________________________________________________________ > MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography > hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht. > The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of > the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of > Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for > the views of the author. > List Information: http://www.maphist.info > _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.info X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2 X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2005 13:44:55 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [MapHist] Antique Map Forgeries From: To: X-Mailer: SquirrelMail (version 1.2.7) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.info X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.076 required=6.31 tests=[AWL=-1.083, NO_REAL_NAME=0.007] X-Spam-Level: David, 10 years ago I did a paper on tha 1520 Apianus world map, that included details on 2 forgeries done of this map on old paper. It was before the time you are interested, but, if you would like more details, please feel free to email me. Don McGuirk > In connection with my study of the Velasco Map, I am looking for information > about known forgeries of antique maps. I have not been able to turn up very > much except the extensive literature on the Vinland Map and an article by > Charles Gehring on the "Dela Croix Map." Does anybody know of other examples of > forgeries of early maps? I am particularly interested in forgeries made between > 1850 and 1930 of maps relating to the colonial history of North America. > > David Allen > La Mesa, CA _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.info X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2 X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Date: Thu, 01 Sep 2005 13:59:21 -0400 From: Joel Kovarsky User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.6 (Windows/20050716) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Subject: Re: [MapHist] Google Print vs. Onsite Collections X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.info X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0 required=6.31 tests=[none] X-Spam-Level: Curt Griggs wrote: >An interesting article, but I disagree with the premise that the researcher >would never have found the book using an electronic search. > Part of the issue is the different mind set between experts in specific academic fields, and those people experienced in information science. Those searches can be made more effective for the former if they solicit some basic help and instruction from the latter...it isn't always easy for people to go along with that premise, and the two groups are interdependent, with respect to how to structure future search and storage capabilities. I'll stop there, since there are a lot of experienced librarians on this list, who have been privy to these discussions for some time. Joel Kovarsky _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.info X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2 X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Date: Thu, 01 Sep 2005 15:54:20 -0400 From: Jeremy Pool User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.5) Gecko/20031007 X-Accept-Language: en,pdf To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Subject: Re: [MapHist] Google Print vs. Onsite Collections X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.info X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.277 required=6.31 tests=[AWL=-0.277] X-Spam-Level: It seems that serendipitous discoveries can occur both browsing library shelves and looking at online search results. I certainly know that I have unexeptedly turned up useful information in both environments. The unexpected findings won't be identical, since the associations provided by online search terms are not identical to those provided by shelf-list adjacency. It would seem technically very easy for Google Print (or other providers of online book collections) to provide the user with the electronic equivalent of the library experience: Given book "abc", please show me the books, in LC-catalogued shelf-list order, that are nearby. And, just to satifisfy my desire for the library experience, the program could easily present this result in a semi-graphical format: with rows (i.e. shelves) of on-screen book spines with author/title labels. In this way, I could browse the library shelves, scrolling up and down if I need to expand my browsing to shelves slightly further away, just like I would do in the stacks of a research library. But, better yet, I could click on any promising title and quickly look at the table-of-contents, the index, or do a full-text search to see if the book contained anything I might find relevant. It would seem that this would save time, and, one hopes, save the books from usage wear. Maybe Google Print is already planning this kind of facility. I hope so. Jeremy Pool _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.info X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2 X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl From: Dyallen2@aol.com Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2005 16:35:55 EDT Subject: Re: [MapHist] Antique Map Forgeries To: maphist@geog.uu.nl X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5200 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.info X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.57 required=6.31 tests=[AWL=-0.616, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_QP_LONG_LINE=0.039, NO_REAL_NAME=0.007, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Level:
Don,
 
I am interested in reading just about anything I can get my hands on dealing with the detection of old map forgeries.  I would certainly like to read anything you have written on the subject.  Many thanks.
 
David Allen
 
 
 X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2 X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Date: Thu, 01 Sep 2005 21:04:08 -0700 From: Deborah Taylor-Pearce User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.7.5) Gecko/20041217 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Subject: Re: [MapHist] William Petty X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.info X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.053 required=6.31 tests=[AWL=-1.053] X-Spam-Level: John, > The Irish University Press's > facsimile edition of Petty's > Hiberniae delineatio (Shannon, 1969) > was a portfolio of loose maps in > which there were also two booklets, > one containing Lamb's Geographical > description, the other my introduction > to both these facsimiles. Frank > Graham's Newcastle edition (Delineatio > only) had a more convenient format > (bound volume) but no introduction or > commentary. Yes, I thought so. Following up on Joel's post, I looked up Graham's edition, and the catalog description made no mention of an introduction. Unfortunately, I don't have ready access to the Irish UP's facs. ed. with your introduction, or for that matter, to the journals _The Map Collector_ and _Irish Geography_ (unless your 1976 article on Petty in _Irish Geography_ happened to be reprinted in the special _Golden Jubilee, 1934-1984_ issue printed in 1984, which my local library owns). I also wasn't able to locate a copy of P. G. Dale's _Sir W[illiam] P[etty] of Romsey_, or Frances Harris' _The British Library catalogue of additions to the manuscripts: the Petty papers_. (BTW, is this the same Frances Harris who is in charge of the Evelyn collection at the British Library?) So I'm going to have to look a bit further afield for all of these, and see if I can get them through interlibrary loan.... Which means they'll be added to my ever-expanding TO DO list for follow-up at some unknown point in the future. I did, however, run across your interesting-sounding title, _Science and Cartography in the Ireland of William and Samuel Molyneux_, which I shall also be adding to my reading list. (I assume you there discuss Molyneux's 1697 paper, _Demonstration of an error ... in comparing surveys taken at long intervals of time, arising from the variation of the magnetic needle (as in William Petty's Down survey)_ among other things, which I know very little about. My own interest in William Molyneux was triggered by reading Sir W. D. Knight's preface to the first English translation of Fontenelle's _Entretiens sur la Pluralité des Mondes_, pub. in Dublin in 1687, with an epistle dedicatory addressed to Molyneux, who had sent Knight the original French edition, and an interesting epistle “To the Bookseller” by Molyneux himself. I suspect that Molyneux's own interest in she-philosophers may have been triggered by George Tollet's "little Irish girl, a mathematical prodigy," who was examined at meetings of the Dublin Philosophical Society in early 1685/6. And also perhaps from meeting with Margaret Flamsteed, when Molyneux came to London in 1685, and visited the Royal Observatory with Halley. I'm also interested in learning more about the organizational vision of the Dublin Philosophical Society, which I gather Molyneux and Petty shared. And also, I have an interest in Molyneux's optics -- spec. his theory of convex glasses, which was cited in John Harris' _Lexicon Technicum_ article on the magic lantern. And now I can add disputes over Petty's Down Survey techniques to my growing list of Molyneux interests. ;-) I probably should add that my local research library *does* have your _Shapes of Ireland: Maps and Their Makers 1564-1839_, so I will get to that one of these days, too. > The real clincher, though, is the > announcement of 'Sir William Petty's > maps of Ireland' as newly published > in the Term Catalogue for Easter 1685 > (E.Arber, The term catalogues, > 1668-1709, ii (1905), p. 126). Agreed. > A complication in all this is > that the maps had probably been > engraved in the 1660s and at least > one advance or proof copy is known > from that period: see S.Tyacke and > H.Wallis, British Library Journal, > v, 2 (1979), p. 187. Thinking that the Sandys engraving may have been intended for one of Petty's known 1683 publications, I had a quick look, and found 3 titles by Petty issued that year: • _Observations upon the Dublin-bills of mortality, MDCLXXXI, and the state of that city. By the observator on the London bills of mortality_. London: Printed for Mark Pardoe ..., 1683. • _Another essay in political arithmetick, concerning the growth of the city of London: with the measures, periods, causes, and consequences thereof, 1682. By Sir William Petty ..._. London: Printed by H. H. for Mark Pardoe ..., 1683. • _England's guide to industry_. London: Printed by R. Holt for T. Passinger, and B. Took, 1683. Rpt. in part IV of _The present state of England: containing I. an account of the riches, strength, magnificence, natural production, manufactures of this island, with an exact catalogue of the nobility, and their seats, &c., II. the trade and commerce within it self, and with all countries traded to by the English, as at this day established, and all other matters relating to inland and marine affairs: supplying what is omitted in the two former parts ..._. By Edward Chamberlayne. London: Printed for William Whitwood ..., 1683. with the latter being the first and unauthorized issue of Petty's _Political Arithmetick_. All 3, I suppose, are possible candidates for a frontispiece portrait, although as far as I know, no extant copies of the 3 include the Sandys' engraving. But then, portrait engravings are seldom a reliable means of dating a published text. They could have been engraved for any number of reasons, and not even their inclusion in a given title is consistent. So the fact that the Sandys engraving is dated 1683 tells us nothing more than that, really. Who knows? Maybe the portrait engraving was first issued in 1683 as an independent print.... FWIW, I accept your 1685 date for the _Hiberniae Delineatio_. > I recently gave away all my map- > historical books and pamphlets and > now have to depend on my old notes > and an ageing memory. Pretty damn good memory, if you ask me! Deborah _____ Deborah Taylor-Pearce dtp@she-philosopher.com _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.info X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2 X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl From: "Ashley Baynton-Williams" To: Subject: RE: [MapHist] Who was Nathaniel Cutler? Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2005 09:33:52 +0100 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.info X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.264 required=6.31 tests=[AWL=-0.411, HTML_80_90=0.146, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001] X-Spam-Level:
Ashley Baynton-Williams,
Thank you for your reply, which has helped clear things up. It is speculated that Daniel Defoe wrote the text for the Atlas as if shares his political views. Is this something you know about?  
 
Amanda Bergius
***
 
Amanda,
 
I'm no expert on the text of the Atlas Maritimus; I have certainly read catalogue descriptions that attribute the text to Defoe, but I've no way of knowing whether that is true or not.
 
The New York Public Library's Map Division example came, if I recollect, from Sotherans, and I'm pretty confident the accompanying description does refer to Defoe as the author.
 
With best wishes,
 
Ashley Baynton-Williams
 X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2 X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.3.4 Date: Fri, 02 Sep 2005 11:51:58 +0200 To: maphist@geog.uu.nl From: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl (by way of List-owner MapHist ) Subject: RE: [MapHist] Who was Nathaniel Cutler? X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.info X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.059 required=6.31 tests=[AWL=1.059] X-Spam-Level: * Message not distributed automatically because it was too long caused by the html-encoding. Peter. Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2005 18:07:07 +0100 Dear Amanda = Bergius (and partly to ***Catherine Delano Smith, if she’s paying attention = this time!), [***“I've not been paying attention so forgive me if this = is irrelevant, but I see that that the British Library has, on microfilm = (21 microfiches), what appears to be a book by Nathaniel Cutler, = entitled 'A General Coasting Pilot....' printed in London by James and = John Knapton in 1728. The Altlas Maritimus is a seperate item (several copies = listed on COPAC). CDS”***] The fact that the ‘Atlas = Maritimus & Commercialis’ (eventually published by a typical = 18th-century ‘congerie’ in 1728) is a composite work has long led to = speculation - both as to the author(s) of its constituent parts as well as – = in a kind of contradistinction - to its anonymity. A pencil note of = around 50 years ago is to be found on the front fly-leaf of the RGS Map Room copy (shelf-mark for this is 14.B.29, as one can discover from our [partial] = online catalogue) – “Attributed to Daniel Defoe = by J.R. Moore, see ‘The Canon of Defoe’s writings’ by J.R. = Moore “The Library” Vol. 9 No. 3 1956” However, around 4 (?) years ago two revisionists published a critique of Moore’s Defoe Canon; from = memory I believe they may have rejected him as one of the contributory authors of = this atlas. Then, inevitably, some letter-writers rebuffed their = rejections . . . For what it’s worth, in the present case, = I’ve retained my belief in Moore and use Defoe as the main text author (at = least, relating to the section “a Large Account of the Commerce Carried = on by Sea between the several Countries of the World, As likewise of all = Inland Trade by means of Navigable Rivers . . .”). Nathaniel Cutler has a separate = title-leaf (with identical publishing ‘congerie’ and date as that = listed on the title-leaf of the ‘Atlas Maritimus & Commercialis’) = to himself for the section ‘A General Coasting Pilot; containing = Directions for Sailing Into, and Out of, the Principal Ports and Harbours = thro’out the Known World. With A Sett of Sea-charts, . . . To all which are = Prefix’d Directions to Mariners , . . . By Nathaniel Cutler.’ His was = the name on the proposals, issued in 1724, for publishing the work (see ‘London Journal’ of 21 March 1724, no. 4). Biographical information is limited to his birth before 1710 and death = after 1728, and his profession(s) as “? mariner” or “There = was an attorney of these names” in ‘Biobliography of British = mathematics and its applications, Part II: 1701-1760’ by R[uth]. V. & = P[eter]. J. Wallis (Newcastle upon = Tyne : PHIBB Project for Historical Biobibliography, 1986, ISBN 1-85027-003-1, p.138, column 2. The Wallis’s mention, as = further references, Allibone [, S.A. : ‘A critical dictionary of English = literature’, 3 vols (1859-71)] and Taylor [, E.G.R.: ‘The mathematical practitioners of Tudor = and Stuart (Hanoverian) England’ (1954)]. Cutler is also listed as a subscriber = to someone else’s book published in 1727 (I have not the details to = hand here at work, but can enlighten you tomorrow). Francis Herbert (Curator of Maps, RGS-IBG; collector of subscribers’ lists to = cartographic works and other garbage) <3D.htm>f.herbert@rgs.org = http://www.rgs.org = <3D.htm>http://images.rgs.org/ -----Original = Message----- From: = owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl [mailto:owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl] On Behalf Of Chasewords@aol.com Sent: 31 August = 2005 11:05 = AM To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Subject: Re: [MapHist] = Who was Nathaniel Cutler? Ashley Baynton-Williams,<= /p> Thank you for your reply, which has helped clear things up. It is = speculated that Daniel Defoe wrote the text for the Atlas as if shares his = political views. Is this something you know = about? Amanda = Bergius =00 _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.info X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2 X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.3.4 Date: Fri, 02 Sep 2005 11:54:37 +0200 To: maphist@geog.uu.nl From: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl (by way of List-owner MapHist ) Subject: RE: [MapHist] Who was Nathaniel Cutler? X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.info X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.057 required=6.31 tests=[AWL=1.057] X-Spam-Level: * Non-member submission from ["Woodfin, Tom" ] Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2005 09:32:02 -0500 Re: Defoe's attribution for the text in the Atlas maritimus et commercialis: =20 see Norman J.W. Thrower and Maximillian E. Novak's 2-page article from June, 1973 in the "UCLA Librarian" pp. 32 & 33 titled 'Defoe and the 'Atlas Maritimus''. =20 Tom Woodfin Thomas M. Woodfin, ASLA Assoc. Professor of Landscape Architecture =20 College of Architecture Texas A&M University College Station, TX 77843-3137 tel: 979-845-1079 fax: 979-862-1784 e: woodfin@tamu.edu "To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public." Theodore Roosevelt _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.info X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2 X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl From: Chasewords@aol.com Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2005 08:09:36 EDT Subject: Re: [MapHist] Who was Nathaniel Cutler? To: maphist@geog.uu.nl X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 630 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.info X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.461 required=6.31 tests=[AWL=0.415, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_QP_LONG_LINE=0.039, NO_REAL_NAME=0.007, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Level:
Ashley Baynton-Williams and CDS, Many thanks for your replies.
 
Tom Woodfin - I would like to read the document you recommended: Norman J.W. Thrower and Maximillian E. Novak's 2-page article from
June, 1973 in the "UCLA Librarian" pp. 32 & 33 titled 'Defoe and the
'Atlas Maritimus'' but am based in the Dorset countryside (England) and have tried to access it on the internet, but to no avail. Could you tell me the jist of it please? 
 
Best wishes, Amanda Bergius
 X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2 X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2005 08:56:18 -0400 To: maphist@geog.uu.nl From: John Day Subject: Re: [MapHist] Google Print vs. Onsite Collections X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86rc1/1053/Fri Sep 2 03:01:53 2005 on pcls3.std.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.info X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.404 required=6.31 tests=[AWL=-0.404] X-Spam-Level: Keyword search will always have problems. I am reminded of the example Heinz von Forester (one of the early cybernetics and AI researchers) always used use: A search on the world "quantum" would never turn up Max Planck's original paper that created the field. Until the machines start dealing with the semantics and not just the typography. Take care, John >It seems that serendipitous discoveries can occur both browsing >library shelves and looking at online search results. I certainly >know that I have unexeptedly turned up useful information in both >environments. The unexpected findings won't be identical, since the >associations provided by online search terms are not identical to >those provided by shelf-list adjacency. > >It would seem technically very easy for Google Print (or other >providers of online book collections) to provide the user with the >electronic equivalent of the library experience: Given book "abc", >please show me the books, in LC-catalogued shelf-list order, that >are nearby. And, just to satifisfy my desire for the library >experience, the program could easily present this result in a >semi-graphical format: with rows (i.e. shelves) of on-screen book >spines with author/title labels. In this way, I could browse the >library shelves, scrolling up and down if I need to expand my >browsing to shelves slightly further away, just like I would do in >the stacks of a research library. But, better yet, I could click on >any promising title and quickly look at the table-of-contents, the >index, or do a full-text search to see if the book contained >anything I might find relevant. It would seem that this would save >time, and, one hopes, save the books from usage wear. Maybe Google >Print is already planning this kind of facility. I hope so. > >Jeremy Pool > > > >_______________________________________________________________ >MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography >hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht. >The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of >the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of >Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for >the views of the author. >List Information: http://www.maphist.info _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.info X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2 X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/9.0.4.4011 Date: Fri, 02 Sep 2005 11:41:05 -0400 Subject: Re: [MapHist] Google Print vs. Onsite Collections From: Helen Glazer To: Maphist X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.info X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.827 required=6.31 tests=[AWL=-0.866, MIME_QP_LONG_LINE=0.039] X-Spam-Level: On 9/2/05 8:56 AM, "John Day" wrote: > Keyword search will always have problems. I am reminded of the > example Heinz von Forester (one of the early cybernetics and AI > researchers) always used use: A search on the world "quantum" would > never turn up Max Planck's original paper that created the field. > > Until the machines start dealing with the semantics and not just the > typography. Well, but who would look up "quantum" in the old fashioned card catalog either? You'd start with "physics" or "quantum physics." And if you type "quantum physics" into Google you get 10 relevant sites on the first page. Keyword search may have problems, and certainly I wouldn't want to work without a good set of printed reference books handy, but I've found amazing obscure stuff on the Internet in 30 minutes of research that I'd never find spending all day -- or all week -- at a university library. We had a hand-drawn 1769 map of a little town called Peenpack, New York, which no longer exists, but it had the names of several landowners. A lot of their descendants had posted extensive genealogical information about them and I was able to identify most of them online, and figure out first names that had been partially rubbed away over time. And if I wanted to follow up by looking for a book, I know now that the historical society in that area has a publication regarding some of those people or their ancestors. That was all discovered from my computer in a few hours. The other thing that's very helpful with Google -- that I bet many people don't use -- is advanced search, which has some useful features when dealing with common words or names, such as allowing you to subtract certain terms (e.g. I was looking up someone named Barnes, and subtracted "Noble" to get rid of all references to the Barnes & Noble bookstore). And if you want a specific phrase, put it in double quotes. That sometimes brings the most relevant document to the top of the results when omitting the quotes does not. --Helen ø ø ø ø ø ø ø ø ø ø ø ø ø ø ø ø ø Helen Glazer, Creative Director George Glazer Gallery http://www.georgeglazer.com Antique Globes, Maps & Prints ø ø ø ø ø ø ø ø ø ø ø ø ø ø ø ø ø _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.info X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2 X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl From: "James Speed Hensinger" To: Subject: RE: [MapHist] Google Print vs. Onsite Collections Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2005 10:13:38 -0600 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.6353 thread-index: AcWv1Ll/fPuFC+4uTW+KsAgBTexfRgAAbabA X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.info X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl X-Spam-Status: No, hits=2.678 required=6.31 tests=[AWL=0.955, MSGID_FROM_MTA_ID=1.723] X-Spam-Level: ** Advanced search is a useful feature, but Google still lacks a number of serious search features, some of which have been available for years in systems such as Dialog. I, for one really miss the proximity limitation, in which you specify that a term must appear in the text within x words of a second specified term. Then if you need to find the Melvin Fingkingdinkler Memorial Undergraduate Engineering and Architecture Library, but are spelling and phrase impaired, you can search "melvin" within 10 words of "librar*" and vastly improve the relevance of your hits without going through a brain damaging exercise of trying to re-construct the library name correctly. Jim James Speed Hensinger JHensinger@comcast.net Web: http://JHensinger.home.comcast.net/ -----Original Message----- From: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl [mailto:owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl] On Behalf Of Helen Glazer Sent: Friday, September 02, 2005 9:41 AM To: Maphist Subject: Re: [MapHist] Google Print vs. Onsite Collections On 9/2/05 8:56 AM, "John Day" wrote: > Keyword search will always have problems. I am reminded of the > example Heinz von Forester (one of the early cybernetics and AI > researchers) always used use: A search on the world "quantum" would > never turn up Max Planck's original paper that created the field. > > Until the machines start dealing with the semantics and not just the > typography. Well, but who would look up "quantum" in the old fashioned card catalog either? You'd start with "physics" or "quantum physics." And if you type "quantum physics" into Google you get 10 relevant sites on the first page. Keyword search may have problems, and certainly I wouldn't want to work without a good set of printed reference books handy, but I've found amazing obscure stuff on the Internet in 30 minutes of research that I'd never find spending all day -- or all week -- at a university library. We had a hand-drawn 1769 map of a little town called Peenpack, New York, which no longer exists, but it had the names of several landowners. A lot of their descendants had posted extensive genealogical information about them and I was able to identify most of them online, and figure out first names that had been partially rubbed away over time. And if I wanted to follow up by looking for a book, I know now that the historical society in that area has a publication regarding some of those people or their ancestors. That was all discovered from my computer in a few hours. The other thing that's very helpful with Google -- that I bet many people don't use -- is advanced search, which has some useful features when dealing with common words or names, such as allowing you to subtract certain terms (e.g. I was looking up someone named Barnes, and subtracted "Noble" to get rid of all references to the Barnes & Noble bookstore). And if you want a specific phrase, put it in double quotes. That sometimes brings the most relevant document to the top of the results when omitting the quotes does not. --Helen ø ø ø ø ø ø ø ø ø ø ø ø ø ø ø ø ø Helen Glazer, Creative Director George Glazer Gallery http://www.georgeglazer.com Antique Globes, Maps & Prints ø ø ø ø ø ø ø ø ø ø ø ø ø ø ø ø ø _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.info _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.info X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2 X-Original-To: maphist@geog.UU.NL Delivered-To: maphist@geog.UU.NL Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2005 16:56:56 -0400 To: maphist@geog.UU.NL From: John Day Subject: Re: [MapHist] Google Print vs. Onsite Collections X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86rc1/1058/Fri Sep 2 14:16:02 2005 on pcls3.std.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.info X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.297 required=6.31 tests=[AWL=-0.297] X-Spam-Level: >On 9/2/05 8:56 AM, "John Day" wrote: > >> Keyword search will always have problems. I am reminded of the >> example Heinz von Forester (one of the early cybernetics and AI >> researchers) always used use: A search on the world "quantum" would >> never turn up Max Planck's original paper that created the field. >> >> Until the machines start dealing with the semantics and not just the >> typography. > >Well, but who would look up "quantum" in the old fashioned card catalog >either? You'd start with "physics" or "quantum physics." And if you type >"quantum physics" into Google you get 10 relevant sites on the first page. And you still wouldn't get Planck's paper, unless it had been specifically cataloged as quantum physics. Or if the search engine was smart enough to consider the references that papers that did use the term. But we don't have those yet. > >Keyword search may have problems, and certainly I wouldn't want to work >without a good set of printed reference books handy, but I've found amazing >obscure stuff on the Internet in 30 minutes of research that I'd never find >spending all day -- or all week -- at a university library. We had a Indeed you can. But it seems you get awful lot of chaff with the wheat (and copies of chaff). >hand-drawn 1769 map of a little town called Peenpack, New York, which no >longer exists, but it had the names of several landowners. A lot of their >descendants had posted extensive genealogical information about them and I >was able to identify most of them online, and figure out first names that >had been partially rubbed away over time. And if I wanted to follow up by >looking for a book, I know now that the historical society in that area has >a publication regarding some of those people or their ancestors. That was >all discovered from my computer in a few hours. Yep, when it is good it is very good >The other thing that's very helpful with Google -- that I bet many people >don't use -- is advanced search, which has some useful features when dealing >with common words or names, such as allowing you to subtract certain terms >(e.g. I was looking up someone named Barnes, and subtracted "Noble" to get >rid of all references to the Barnes & Noble bookstore). And if you want a >specific phrase, put it in double quotes. That sometimes brings the most >relevant document to the top of the results when omitting the quotes does >not. Yep, all helpful. But still not too much chaff, that is why people are trying to work on a semantic web. But we have been working on this for 30 years that I know of. We still do not appear to be any closer to being able to precisely state the problem so we can build the solution. And you know what Uncle W said, "7 That of which we can not speak we must pass over in silence." Have a great holiday! John _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.info X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2 X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl From: Dh98pr6@cs.com Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2005 22:54:10 EDT Subject: Re: [MapHist] Plotting Sheets To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Cc: manwithaverylongname@tiscali.co.uk X-Mailer: 7.0 for Windows sub 8001 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.info X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.102 required=6.31 tests=[AWL=-0.170, HTML_20_30=0.226, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_QP_LONG_LINE=0.039, NO_REAL_NAME=0.007, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Level: In a message dated 8/7/2005 4:29:47 PM Eastern Standard Time, manwithaverylongname@tiscali.co.uk writes:

Does anyone know anything about the early history of the aircraft plotting
sheet? Who invented
it and when - and who were the early vendors. What variations were there.
What does VP stand for, if anything?

Thanks for your help,

Mike


Sorry about the delay in getting back to this. If you mean VP as in US Navy usage,
"V" is the letter designator for aviation activities (cf. CV= aircraft carrier, derived from
the C for cruiser category because because they were not "B" for battleline ships.)
"P" stands for "patrol." "VP" is usually a designator for a numbered patrol aircraft squadron. It may have other meanings. What is the context?

Henry Sirotin X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2 X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl X-UNTD-OriginStamp: fC1QiUUO0Jo6REHPaNXx1wuUCmWJLEo3Z+E3lkR6DdubddRRyq6lmQ== To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Cc: maphist@geog.uu.nl Date: Sun, 4 Sep 2005 19:16:01 -0400 Subject: [MapHist] Cartifact X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 From: Paul Boyd X-ContentStamp: 8:4:325883292 X-UNTD-Peer-Info: 127.0.0.1|localhost|m05.lax.untd.com|paulboyd@juno.com X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.info X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.053 required=6.31 tests=[AWL=-1.053] X-Spam-Level: Dear MapHisters, Just came across a cartifact -- an early 17th century wine glass with a diamond-point engraving of a map of the Rhine. It's shown in color photographs on the front and back covers and on page 46 of the Metropolitan Museum of Art Bulletin for Summer 2001. The map engraved on the bowl was based on a map of the Rhine by the mathematician and cartographer Caspar Vopel, which was published in Cologne in 1555. On the bowl of the wine glass, the river's course from Mainz to Utrecht is shown, with its many tributaries and branches and the adjacent lands, cities, and physical features. Details from that source: 11 1/4 inches high. Green-tinted glass. Dutch, probably Amsterdam. I n the collection of the Met's Department of European Sculpture and Decorative Arts. The wineglass is a Roemer with a hollow cylindrical stem, and above that the main body was made unusually large in order to accommodate the map engraved across its barrel-shaped bowl. For centuries, Roemers were typically used to serve the white wines of the Rhineland. Paul Boyd _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.info X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2 X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl X-UNTD-OriginStamp: fC1QiUUO0Jo6REHPaNXx1wuUCmWJLEo304ZqHGEN0PPk7pb+K1HRbg== To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Date: Sun, 4 Sep 2005 19:22:44 -0400 Subject: [MapHist] Fw: Cartifact X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 From: Paul Boyd X-ContentStamp: 15:7:1035913168 X-UNTD-Peer-Info: 127.0.0.1|localhost|m05.lax.untd.com|paulboyd@juno.com X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.info X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.862 required=6.31 tests=[AWL=-0.862] X-Spam-Level: Maphisters Forgot to say in message I just sent: If someone out there is committed to collecting cartifact information, I will happily send them as a donation the Metropolitan Museum bulletin with the photos and information on the Roemer wine glass engraved with the map of the Rhine. Just say on MapHist how to email you and I'll be in contact to work out the dispatch. Paul Boyd ______________ --------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Paul Boyd To: Cc: maphist@geog.uu.nl Date: Sun, 4 Sep 2005 19:16:01 -0400 Subject: Cartifact MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Full-Name: Paul Boyd Dear MapHisters, Just came across a cartifact -- an early 17th century wine glass with a diamond-point engraving of a map of the Rhine. It's shown in color photographs on the front and back covers and on page 46 of the Metropolitan Museum of Art Bulletin for Summer 2001. The map engraved on the bowl was based on a map of the Rhine by the mathematician and cartographer Caspar Vopel, which was published in Cologne in 1555. On the bowl of the wine glass, the river's course from Mainz to Utrecht is shown, with its many tributaries and branches and the adjacent lands, cities, and physical features. Details from that source: 11 1/4 inches high. Green-tinted glass. Dutch, probably Amsterdam. I n the collection of the Met's Department of European Sculpture and Decorative Arts. The wineglass is a Roemer with a hollow cylindrical stem, and above that the main body was made unusually large in order to accommodate the map engraved across its barrel-shaped bowl. For centuries, Roemers were typically used to serve the white wines of the Rhineland. Paul Boyd _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.info X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2 X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Date: Sun, 4 Sep 2005 19:40:47 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [MapHist] Antique Map Forgeries From: To: X-Mailer: SquirrelMail (version 1.2.7) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.info X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.805 required=6.31 tests=[AWL=-0.812, NO_REAL_NAME=0.007] X-Spam-Level: David, Up to my elbows in getting Denver ready for the IMCOS meeting in 2 weeks!!! Will send of my paper to you when my eyes are above water level. about 1 page dedicated to the three known forgeries (copies on old paper) of the Apianus World map of 1520. What is your address? John Carter Brown Library had a fake early map on display years ago (Mercator, Ortelius, Hondius or Blaeu, I believe). The real thing that gave it away was the plate mark was to close to the image!!! I'm sure someone at the library at Brown University would know exactly the map I am talking about, if this particular example had not already come to your attention. Don McGuirk > Don, > > I am interested in reading just about anything I can get my hands on dealing > with the detection of old map forgeries. I would certainly like to read > anything you have written on the subject. Many thanks. > > David Allen > > _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.info X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2 X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl From: Nick Millea To: carto-soc , liber list , lis-maps , maphist-l , maps-l Cc: c.lloyd@qub.ac.uk, k.lilley@qub.ac.uk, b.m.campbell@qub.ac.uk, paul.ell@qub.ac.uk Subject: [MapHist] The Gough Map - new website details Date: Mon, 5 Sep 2005 10:03:44 +0100 (GMT Standard Time) X-Mailer: Simeon for Win32 Version 4.1.5 Build (43) X-Authentication: none X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.info X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.129 required=6.31 tests=[AWL=-1.129] X-Spam-Level: Dear All, Apologies for cross-posting to Carto-soc, Liber-gdc, Lis-maps, Maphist-l, Maps-l, and various Gough Map aficionados ...... The Bodleian Library is collaborating with scholars from Queen's University Belfast on 'Mapping the Realm', a research project funded by the British Academy to create an interactive online version of the Bodleian's celebrated medieval Gough Map of Great Britain. The map itself is believed to date from around 1360, the clues to its accurate dating based on historical changes of place name and studies of the hand used to inscribe those names onto the map. However, neither the identity of its author or its exact origins are known. Drawn in pen, ink and coloured washes on two skins of vellum, the map's dimensions measure 115 x 56cm. It was donated to the Bodleian Library in Oxford by Richard Gough in 1809, along with the rest of his collection of maps, prints, books and drawings, under the terms of his will. The map was bought by Gough at a sale in 1774 for half a crown. The 'Mapping the Realm' research project consists of a multi-disciplinary team of academics based at Queen's University Belfast. It is being directed by Keith Lilley (Geography), with support by Chris Lloyd (Geography) and Paul Ell (Centre for Data Digitisation and Analysis). The research fellow is Steve Trick. The project team also includes Professor Bruce Campbell (Geography), Professor John Thompson (English), and Mark Gardiner (Archaeology). The research is being carried out in collaboration with the Bodleian Library through Map Librarian, Nick Millea. The project seeks to find out more about this enigmatic map. Using a scan of the original, undertaken by DigiData Technologies for an Oxford Digital Library project, the Gough Map has been analysed at the School of Geography at Queen's using a Geographical Information System (GIS). GIS has made it possible to study the map's content and attempt to assess how it was made, who made it, and what it was made for - all questions yet to be resolved. The map has also been made interactive and is accessible via the following link from the Bodleian Map Room's home page: http://www.bodley.ox.ac.uk/guides/maps/herefrme.htm There is also a direct link via Queen's: http://sarah.gg.qub.ac.uk/website/goughmap/viewer.htm As well as seeing a digital version of the Gough Map users will also be able to identify the features that the map shows, such as towns and cities, roads and rivers, and study accompanying data relating to these places. It is hoped that 'Mapping the Realm' will inspire future research into what is both the earliest surviving route map of Britain, and the earliest surviving map depicting Britain with a recognisable coastline. With best wishes, Nick Millea ________________________________________________________ Nick Millea Map Librarian, Bodleian Library, Broad Street, Oxford, OX1 3BG tel: 01865 287119 fax: 01865 277139 email: nam@bodley.ox.ac.uk homepage: http://www.bodley.ox.ac.uk/guides/maps/ ________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.info X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2 X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Subject: [MapHist] RE: The Gough Map - new website details Date: Mon, 5 Sep 2005 10:21:33 +0100 X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: The Gough Map - new website details Thread-Index: AcWx+MB2RJMnQQSfSxC7IMsARah3JwAAHWCA From: "Francis Herbert" To: "Nick Millea" , "carto-soc" , "liber list" , "lis-maps" , "maphist-l" , "maps-l" Cc: , , , X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.info X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.139 required=6.31 tests=[AWL=-1.139] X-Spam-Level: A minor addition - only for those who are not yet aware of it - to Nick's welcome announcement on this project is a recent (2004) publication. The work's culmination is a theory on the administrative (regal/state 'control') raison-d'etre of the Gough Map, based largely on the roads and natural resources depicted - viz: The king's two maps : cartography and culture in thirteenth-century England / Daniel Birkholz. - New York ; London : Routledge, 2004. - xxxv,254p. : ill., maps ; 24 cm. - (Studies in medieval history and culture / ed. Francis G. Gentry ; vol. 22). - Bibliogr.: p.215-233. - Notes (to all chapters): p.163-213. - Discusses lost 'map mural' of the world, commissioned by Henry III [1216-72], of 1236 in Painted Chamber in Westminster Palace, and 'map cloth' of the world, commissioned for Edward I [1272-1306], of ca 1299/1302 in Wardrobe in Westminster and relationship to MS map of Britain of ca 1280/1360 (the 'Gough' map, in Bodleian Libr.). - "I take my title . . . not from any particular extant medieval documents so much as from the larger phenomena of these two map genres - mappaemundi and, to coin a term, mappaeregni - that are traceable to thirteenth-century English royal interest." - 'Prologue'. - ISBN 0-415-96791-0 Francis Herbert (Curator of Maps, RGS-IBG; Compiler of 'Imago Mundi Bibliography' 1976-2005) f.herbert@rgs.org http://www.rgs.org [see 'Collections' - including some online catalogues (e.g., many maps up to ca 1940)] http://images.rgs.org/ -----Original Message----- From: Nick Millea [mailto:nam@bodley.ox.ac.uk] Sent: 05 September 2005 10:04 To: carto-soc; liber list; lis-maps; maphist-l; maps-l Cc: c.lloyd@qub.ac.uk; k.lilley@qub.ac.uk; b.m.campbell@qub.ac.uk; paul.ell@qub.ac.uk Subject: The Gough Map - new website details Dear All, Apologies for cross-posting to Carto-soc, Liber-gdc, Lis-maps, Maphist-l, Maps-l, and various Gough Map aficionados ...... The Bodleian Library is collaborating with scholars from Queen's University Belfast on 'Mapping the Realm', a research project funded by the British Academy to create an interactive online version of the Bodleian's celebrated medieval Gough Map of Great Britain. The map itself is believed to date from around 1360, the clues to its accurate dating based on historical changes of place name and studies of the hand used to inscribe those names onto the map. However, neither the identity of its author or its exact origins are known. Drawn in pen, ink and coloured washes on two skins of vellum, the map's dimensions measure 115 x 56cm. It was donated to the Bodleian Library in Oxford by Richard Gough in 1809, along with the rest of his collection of maps, prints, books and drawings, under the terms of his will. The map was bought by Gough at a sale in 1774 for half a crown. The 'Mapping the Realm' research project consists of a multi-disciplinary team of academics based at Queen's University Belfast. It is being directed by Keith Lilley (Geography), with support by Chris Lloyd (Geography) and Paul Ell (Centre for Data Digitisation and Analysis). The research fellow is Steve Trick. The project team also includes Professor Bruce Campbell (Geography), Professor John Thompson (English), and Mark Gardiner (Archaeology). The research is being carried out in collaboration with the Bodleian Library through Map Librarian, Nick Millea. The project seeks to find out more about this enigmatic map. Using a scan of the original, undertaken by DigiData Technologies for an Oxford Digital Library project, the Gough Map has been analysed at the School of Geography at Queen's using a Geographical Information System (GIS). GIS has made it possible to study the map's content and attempt to assess how it was made, who made it, and what it was made for - all questions yet to be resolved. The map has also been made interactive and is accessible via the following link from the Bodleian Map Room's home page: http://www.bodley.ox.ac.uk/guides/maps/herefrme.htm There is also a direct link via Queen's: http://sarah.gg.qub.ac.uk/website/goughmap/viewer.htm As well as seeing a digital version of the Gough Map users will also be able to identify the features that the map shows, such as towns and cities, roads and rivers, and study accompanying data relating to these places. It is hoped that 'Mapping the Realm' will inspire future research into what is both the earliest surviving route map of Britain, and the earliest surviving map depicting Britain with a recognisable coastline. With best wishes, Nick Millea ________________________________________________________ Nick Millea Map Librarian, Bodleian Library, Broad Street, Oxford, OX1 3BG tel: 01865 287119 fax: 01865 277139 email: nam@bodley.ox.ac.uk homepage: http://www.bodley.ox.ac.uk/guides/maps/ ________________________________________________________ ______________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email ______________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.info X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2 X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl From: "tony campbell" To: "*MapHist" Subject: [MapHist] The Map Room weblog Date: Mon, 5 Sep 2005 12:41:17 +0100 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.info X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.226 required=6.31 tests=[AWL=-1.226] X-Spam-Level: I would like to welcome Jonathan Crowe to the MapHist list. He is doubtless too modest to point this fact out but 'The Map Room: A Weblog About Maps' < http://www.mcwetboy.net/maproom/ > is undoubtedly the most interesting and relevant blog for those interested in map history (though of course it covers contemporary interests as well). I have urged you in the past to take a look at his blog. It is lively, well written, and frequently alerts us to sites and activities of which, collectively at least, we had been unaware. I am sure that we will benefit from his presence, just as The Map Room will, from time to time, undoubtedly help to spread word of what we are saying, to a larger audience. Tony Campbell t.campbell@ockendon.clara.co.uk -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.10.18/89 - Release Date: 02/09/2005 _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.info X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2 X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Subject: RE: [MapHist] The Map Room weblog Date: Mon, 5 Sep 2005 14:03:04 +0100 X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [MapHist] The Map Room weblog Thread-Index: AcWyDsoCMq7xRKn9TH6hhMF9TvkcVgACiRsg From: "Francis Herbert" To: X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.info X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.108 required=6.31 tests=[AWL=-1.108] X-Spam-Level: TC/'MapHist': This is a brief exchange of messages from 19 May, the last (or: first) being mine to 'Lis-maps' of same date. F.herbert@rgs.org >FYI - in case there's a need . . . >Francis Herbert >f.herbert@rgs.org >http://www.rgs.org [see 'Collections'] >-----Original Message----- >From: Maps, Air Photo & Geospatial Systems Forum [mailto:MAPS->L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU] On Behalf Of Angie Cope, AGSL >Sent: 19 May 2005 14:14 >To: MAPS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU >Subject: MAPS-L: Map, cartography or geospatial blogs >================================================ >MAPS-L ** MAPS-L ** MAPS-L ** MAPS-L ** MAPS-L >================================================ >Subject: RE: MAPS-L: Map, cartography or geospatial blogs >Date: Thu, 19 May 2005 >From: "Jones, David \(Library\)" >Hi Folks >There's a weblog called: "The Map Room: A weblog about maps" >Here's the URL. Check it out. >http://www.mcwetboy.net/maproom/ >David > David L. Jones, Map Librarian > William C. Wonders Map Collection > Science & Technology Library > 1-26 Cameron Library > University of Alberta > Edmonton, Alberta, Canada T6G 2J8 > voice (780)492-3433 fax (780)492-2721 > e-mail david.jones@ualberta.ca >-----Original Message----- >From: Maps, Air Photo & Geospatial Systems Forum [mailto:MAPS->L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU] On Behalf Of Angie Cope, AGSL >Sent: Thursday, May 19, 2005 6:39 AM >To: MAPS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU >Subject: MAPS-L: Map, cartography or geospatial blogs >================================================ >MAPS-L ** MAPS-L ** MAPS-L ** MAPS-L ** MAPS-L >================================================ >Does anyone have or know of a blog of interest to the subsribership of this >list? Maps, cartography, geospatial stuff? Anyone know if emails from this >list are harvested and/or republished anywhere else (blog or RSS)? >Ta. >Angie >*********************************************** >ANGIE COPE >American Geographical Society Library >2311 E. Hartford Avenue >Milwaukee, Wisconsin 53201 >Map Librarian, MAPS-L Moderator >http://www.uwm.edu/Libraries/AGSL/welcome_to_mapsl%20forum.html >*********************************************** -----Original Message----- From: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl [mailto:owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl] On Behalf Of tony campbell Sent: 05 September 2005 12:41 PM To: *MapHist Subject: [MapHist] The Map Room weblog I would like to welcome Jonathan Crowe to the MapHist list. He is doubtless too modest to point this fact out but 'The Map Room: A Weblog About Maps' < http://www.mcwetboy.net/maproom/ > is undoubtedly the most interesting and relevant blog for those interested in map history (though of course it covers contemporary interests as well). I have urged you in the past to take a look at his blog. It is lively, well written, and frequently alerts us to sites and activities of which, collectively at least, we had been unaware. I am sure that we will benefit from his presence, just as The Map Room will, from time to time, undoubtedly help to spread word of what we are saying, to a larger audience. Tony Campbell t.campbell@ockendon.clara.co.uk -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.10.18/89 - Release Date: 02/09/2005 _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.info _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.info X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2 X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl From: EandFS@aol.com Date: Mon, 5 Sep 2005 10:38:31 EDT Subject: [MapHist] Map dealers in India To: maphist@geog.uu.nl X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5041 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.info X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.081 required=6.31 tests=[AWL=-0.001, HTML_40_50=0.035, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_QP_LONG_LINE=0.039, NO_REAL_NAME=0.007, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Level:
I have tried to post this question to the Map Trade List without success.  I will be in India in Oct and have been unable to locate dealers on the usual sources with the exception of one dealer in Mombai.  I will not be in Mombai and am interested in finding antique map dealers in Delhi, Jaipur and throughout Rajasthan.  Does anyone have any information?
 
Fredric Shauger
 X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2 X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Date: Mon, 05 Sep 2005 11:06:25 -0400 From: Joel Kovarsky User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.6 (Windows/20050716) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Subject: Re: [MapHist] Map dealers in India X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.info X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.996 required=6.31 tests=[URIBL_SBL=0.996] X-Spam-Level: EandFS@aol.com wrote: > I will be in India in Oct and have been unable to locate dealers on > the usual sources with the exception of one dealer in Mombai. > *Phillips Antiques*, Farooq Issa, Opp. Regal Cinema, Museum, Bombay 400 001. 2202-0564, Fax 2202-5579, E-mail: faisal@bom3.vsnl.net.in Internet: www.phillipsantiques.com . Shop hours. India. This may still not help. As a general reference see , although this will still miss a few. Joel Kovarsky _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.info X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2 X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl From: EandFS@aol.com Date: Mon, 5 Sep 2005 11:35:05 EDT Subject: Re: [MapHist] Map dealers in India To: maphist@geog.uu.nl X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5041 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.info X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.045 required=6.31 tests=[AWL=-0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_QP_LONG_LINE=0.039, NO_REAL_NAME=0.007, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Level:
Joel:
 
Phillips is the one dealer that I did find.  I will check out the site you mention.  Thanks for your help.
 
Fredric Shauger
 X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2 X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=gwuTM+PUq2nAu3N3o8CpC06g3IE6gGI8g0fhMUbeskNN4CRBhUrGFnlUKGkOl2bu0vygPTID/zZe8PjJxSUM3Mp1eb5LDz2BOuaAC/ISxUztB8dKQ4V8WJr4kbzCUQPcKBnATDVrk9A15HpVWp6hQIPOvvs6fMYG+VaxSD83ziA= Date: Mon, 5 Sep 2005 13:15:51 -0400 From: Jonathan Crowe To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Subject: Re: [MapHist] The Map Room weblog X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.info X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.009 required=6.31 tests=[AWL=-0.057, RCVD_BY_IP=0.067, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Level: Well, um, thanks, Tony. Let me just say that you and the MapHist list have been a big help to me: you've been doing a first-rate job in covering, responding to and analysing the Forbes Smiley affair (for example), and I've been stealing from you shamelessly. Most blogs about maps approach the subject solely from the GIS industry/technology side of things, so it really, really helps to have MapHist as a resource. Jonathan Crowe The Map Room http://www.mcwetboy.net/maproom/ On 9/5/05, tony campbell wrote: > I would like to welcome Jonathan Crowe to the MapHist list. _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.info X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2 X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Date: Tue, 06 Sep 2005 11:50:48 -0500 From: "Matthew H. Edney" Subject: [MapHist] history of cartography in the US media To: maphist Organization: University of Wisconsin X-Accept-Language: en-us, en User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.6 (Macintosh/20050716) X-Spam-PmxInfo: Server=avs-5, Version=5.0.3.165339, Antispam-Engine: 2.1.0.0, Antispam-Data: 2005.9.6.15, SenderIP=[144.92.235.196] X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.info X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0 required=6.31 tests=[none] X-Spam-Level: Dear All: Those of you in listening range of WNYC 93.9 FM in (where else) New York City might want to tune in on Friday September 9th, between 1.20pm and 2.00pm (Eastern) when Leonard Lopate will devote the "Please Explain" portion of his show to the subjec of maps and their history. (Previous topics include why men have nipples, cricket, triskaidekaphobia, taxes, asthma, black holes, and how to read poetry.) Unless everything goes pear-shaped, I'll be one speaker; the other is still t.b.a., I believe. If you don't live in earshot of WNYC and are really are desperate to hear, you can get a live internet feed from www.wnyc.org. Best, Matthew -- Matthew H. Edney Director, History of Cartography Project Department of Geography, University of Wisconsin 550 N. Park St., Madison, WI 53706-1491, USA +1 (608) 263-3992, 3-0762 (fax) / edney@wisc.edu [Associate Professor and OML Faculty Scholar ] [University of Southern Maine ] _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.info X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2 X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Date: Tue, 06 Sep 2005 12:43:41 -0500 From: "Angie Cope, AGSL" User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.2 (Windows/20050317) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Subject: [MapHist] Call for Papers: "Early American Cartographies"] X-Virus-Scanned: by clamav X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.52 on 129.89.7.45 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.info X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.212 required=6.31 tests=[AWL=-1.212] X-Spam-Level: -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Call for Papers: "Early American Cartographies" Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2005 10:14:03 +0200 From: Schrover, M.L.J.C. Call For Papers "Early American Cartographies" March 2-4, 2006 The Newberry Library A conference sponsored by the Society of Early Americanists; the Newberry Library's Center for Renaissance Studies, Hermon Dunlap Smith Center for the History of Cartography, D'Arcy McNickle Center for American Indian History, and Dr. William M. Scholl Center for Family and Community History; and the Institute for Scholarship in the Liberal Arts, College of Arts and Sciences, University of Notre Dame Keynote speaker: Barbara Mundy, Fordham University This cross-disciplinary conference investigates the enduring significance of space and place in scholarship of the early Americas against the backdrop of the Newberry Library's world-class cartographic holdings. We welcome proposals for papers and panels on the materials and metaphors of mapping the early Americas - from marchlands to middle grounds, from borderlands to contact zones, from frontiers to public spheres. Papers concerning the following topics are especially welcome: Native American mapping; cartographic fantasies and maps in literature from the Americas; cartography's relations to imperial conflicts and colonialism in the Americas; the portrayal of rural and urban spaces; Midwestern and Great Plains geographic space and the Jeffersonian grid; the map trade and map consumption in the Americas; maps used in land speculation, Boosterism, and promotional schemes; mapping and exploration; the mapping of early transportation networks; the history of pedagogic cartography; and the use of maps in contemporary high school and college classrooms. Those interested in participating should submit a 350-word abstract for receipt by October 1, 2005 to renaissance@newberry.org (e-mail preferred) or: Center for Renaissance Studies The Newberry Library 60 W. Walton St. Chicago, IL 60610-7324 Please contact us at renaissance@newberry.org or 312-255-3514 for more information. -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ANGIE COPE American Geographical Society Library 2311 E. Hartford Avenue Milwaukee, Wisconsin 53201 http://www.uwm.edu/Libraries/AGSL/index.html Hours: M-F 8:00am-4:30pm acope@uwm.edu (414) 229-6282 (800) 558-8993 (US TOLL FREE) (414) 229-3624 (FAX) Map Librarian, MAPS-L Moderator http://www.uwm.edu/Libraries/AGSL/welcome_to_mapsl%20forum.html ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.info X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2 X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.3.4 Date: Tue, 06 Sep 2005 21:16:59 +0200 To: maphist@geog.uu.nl From: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl (by way of List-owner MapHist ) Subject: [MapHist] A government map and the problems it caused X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.info X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.054 required=6.31 tests=[AWL=1.054] X-Spam-Level: * Non-member submission from [Jeffers Lennox ] Here's an interesting article from Toronto's The Globe and Mail. You may need to s u b scribe (for free) to read it, but it's well worth it. "The diagram that caused the fuss" http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20050906.wxmap06/BNStory/National/ Jeffers Lennox _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.info X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2 X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Date: Tue, 06 Sep 2005 15:31:31 -0500 From: "Matthew H. Edney" Subject: Re: [MapHist] history of cartography in the US media To: maphist Organization: University of Wisconsin X-Accept-Language: en-us, en User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.6 (Macintosh/20050716) X-Spam-PmxInfo: Server=avs-8, Version=5.0.3.165339, Antispam-Engine: 2.1.0.0, Antispam-Data: 2005.9.6.21, SenderIP=[144.92.235.196] X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.info X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0 required=6.31 tests=[none] X-Spam-Level: Sorry: "pear shaped" is a British expression of recent but rather indeterminate origin; something that has gone pear shaped has gone utterly awry. There's a brief discussion on the thoroughly wonderful "World Wide Words" website, at http://www.worldwidewords.org/qa/qa-pea2.htm Best, Matthew James Speed Hensinger wrote: >OK, I give up. I'm not familiar with the expression "pear shaped". >"Mushroom cloud shaped" or even "square" I get. > >Jim > >James Speed Hensinger >JHensinger@comcast.net >Web: http://JHensinger.home.comcast.net/ > > > > >Unless everything goes pear-shaped,... > > > _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.info X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2 From: postmaster@lrc.gov.on.ca To: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl Subject: Undeliverable: Re: [MapHist] history of cartography in the US med ia Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2005 16:38:00 -0400 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.72) X-MS-Embedded-Report: X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.248 required=6.3 tests=[AWL=-1.129, FORGED_MUA_IMS=2.37, NO_REAL_NAME=0.007] X-Spam-Level: * Your message To: maphist Subject: Re: [MapHist] history of cartography in the US media Sent: Tue, 6 Sep 2005 16:31:31 -0400 did not reach the following recipient(s): LaPrairie, Rick (MNR) on Tue, 6 Sep 2005 16:38:04 -0400 A configuration error in the e-mail system caused the message to bounce between two servers or to be forwarded between two recipients. Contact your administrator. LRCPTORXMXMB001.lrc.ad.gov.on.ca 4.4.6 Message-ID: <431DFCA3.1080904@wisc.edu> From: edney@wisc.edu Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Subject: Re: [MapHist] history of cartography in the US media Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2005 16:31:31 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.72) X-MS-Embedded-Report: in-reply-to: <0IME00MOXWF1QR@smtp4.wiscmail.wisc.edu> return-path: x-originalarrivaltime: 06 Sep 2005 20:39:18.0453 (UTC) FILETIME=[0DABFE50:01C5B323] user-agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.6 (Macintosh/20050716) x-accept-language: en-us, en delivered-to: maphist@geog.uu.nl x-original-to: maphist@geog.uu.nl x-virus-scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl x-spam-status: No, hits=0 required=6.31 tests=[none] x-spam-level: list-info: http://www.maphist.info x-spam-pmxinfo: Server=avs-8, Version=5.0.3.165339, Antispam-Engine: 2.1.0.0, Antispam-Data: 2005.9.6.21, SenderIP=[144.92.235.196] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sorry: "pear shaped" is a British expression of recent but rather indeterminate origin; something that has gone pear shaped has gone utterly awry. There's a brief discussion on the thoroughly wonderful "World Wide Words" website, at http://www.worldwidewords.org/qa/qa-pea2.htm Best, Matthew James Speed Hensinger wrote: >OK, I give up. I'm not familiar with the expression "pear shaped". >"Mushroom cloud shaped" or even "square" I get. > >Jim > >James Speed Hensinger >JHensinger@comcast.net >Web: http://JHensinger.home.comcast.net/ > > > > >Unless everything goes pear-shaped,... > > > _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.info X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2 X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl From: "Jens Bornholt" To: Subject: [MapHist] tulane Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2005 16:24:05 -0600 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.info X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.875 required=6.31 tests=[AWL=-0.876, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001] X-Spam-Level:
does anybody have any news as to how Tulane University fared during the recent disaster and esp.their map/book collections?
Jens Bornholt
 X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2 X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=lxx8xr+Y94o6vi+VqbnNpx1krhYQQvuHUxFmwR/+lhsLb/cztmwfSuH/Z4K424Kl; h=Received:Message-ID:From:To:References:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-Priority:X-MSMail-Priority:X-Mailer:X-MimeOLE:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; From: "Dorothy Sloan" To: Subject: Re: [MapHist] tulane Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2005 18:00:23 -0500 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-ELNK-Trace: f33403415f50180b84b095f4ad0a658b3394c2b657dba48e74bf435c0eb9d478fed25d3098752d2928f878619e66d22ea1de65ae2d1a574e350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 67.142.83.101 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.info X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.824 required=6.31 tests=[AWL=-0.967, HTML_FONT_BIG=0.142, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001] X-Spam-Level:
I, too, have been worrying and wondering the fate of the Tulane collections, plus Historic New Orleans.  The Tulane Central America and Mesoamerican collections at Tulane are incredible and irreplaceable, with material like the Tulane Codex. The Historic New Orleans collection also has unique material, some of which is cartographic.
 
I have faith everything is o.k., but still I would like to know.  Historic New Orleans is in the French Quarter which is higher than the remainder of New Orleans, so hopefully they are o.k.
 
Dorothy Sloan
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, September 06, 2005 5:24 PM
Subject: [MapHist] tulane

does anybody have any news as to how Tulane University fared during the recent disaster and esp.their map/book collections?
Jens Bornholt
 X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2 X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl From: "James Speed Hensinger" To: Subject: RE: [MapHist] history of cartography in the US media Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2005 18:13:47 -0600 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.6353 Thread-Index: AcWzIrxW7y7GS394RzC3TdwSELWfzQAHj8Pw X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.info X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl X-Spam-Status: No, hits=2.36 required=6.31 tests=[AWL=0.637, MSGID_FROM_MTA_ID=1.723] X-Spam-Level: ** Learned something. Thanks. Jim -----Original Message----- From: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl [mailto:owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl] On Behalf Of Matthew H. Edney Sent: Tuesday, September 06, 2005 2:32 PM To: maphist Subject: Re: [MapHist] history of cartography in the US media Sorry: "pear shaped" is a British expression of recent but rather indeterminate origin; something that has gone pear shaped has gone utterly awry. There's a brief discussion on the thoroughly wonderful "World Wide Words" website, at http://www.worldwidewords.org/qa/qa-pea2.htm Best, Matthew James Speed Hensinger wrote: >OK, I give up. I'm not familiar with the expression "pear shaped". >"Mushroom cloud shaped" or even "square" I get. > >Jim > >James Speed Hensinger >JHensinger@comcast.net >Web: http://JHensinger.home.comcast.net/ > > > > >Unless everything goes pear-shaped,... > > > _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.info _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.info X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2 X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2005 21:21:18 -0400 To: maphist@geog.uu.nl From: John Day Subject: Re: [MapHist] tulane X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86rc1/1067/Tue Sep 6 20:53:51 2005 on pcls4.std.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.info X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.168 required=6.31 tests=[AWL=-0.256, HTML_50_60=0.087, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001] X-Spam-Level: Re: [MapHist] tulane
does anybody have any news as to how Tulane University fared during the recent disaster and esp.their map/book collections?
Jens Bornholt

Nothing that specific.  If you check their website today, it seems the damage was "as bad" as other places.  I have a friend in the chem dept I have been trying to reach.  No luck yet.  We are getting some of their students up here.

Wish I knew more.

John
 X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2 X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl From: "James Speed Hensinger" To: Subject: [MapHist] 5th Annual Rocky Mountain Antique Map Fair -AND- 25th IMCoS International Symposium Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2005 21:43:45 -0600 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.6353 Thread-Index: AcWzXllYadwECXnRRRWxWfPorB8TuQ== X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.info X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl X-Spam-Status: No, hits=2.296 required=6.31 tests=[AWL=0.573, MSGID_FROM_MTA_ID=1.723] X-Spam-Level: ** Please join us for the 5th Annual Rocky Mountain Antique Map Fair 9-5 on Saturday Sept. 17th 10-2 on Sunday Sept. 18th Denver Public Library 13th & Broadway Lower Level, B2 Conference Room downtown Denver The IMCoS 24th International Symposium will immediately follow the Map Fair Sept. 18 - 23rd. The Program and Registration materials are at http://www.RMmaps.org. There will be an informal no-host dinner for exhibitors, dealers, guests, and volunteers 6:30 p.m. on Friday Sept. 16 Bravo Ristorante In the Adam's Mark Hotel 16th & Tremont in downtown Denver Please RSVP to farwesttc@sisna.com or 307-631-8599. We need an approximate head count, but everyone is welcome. More information about the Map Fair, the IMCoS Symposium, and the dinner is available on the Rocky Mountain Map Society website, http://www.RMmaps.org. We hope to see you in Denver. Be well. James Speed Hensinger _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.info X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2 X-Original-To: maphist-digest@pop.geog.uu.nl Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Date: Wed, 07 Sep 2005 06:59:30 +0100 From: annasophia.c@portugalmail.pt To: maphist-digest@pop.geog.uu.nl Subject: [MapHist] subject: Garnpré-french engraver 18th century User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) 3.0 X-Originating-IP: 213.13.237.174 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.info X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.82 required=6.31 tests=[AWL=0.814, NO_REAL_NAME=0.007, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Level: Dear All: Who was Charles de Granpré or Carlos de Grandprez? I only know that he was a French emgraver who he probably worked in The Netherlands and was hired by the Portuguese king João V to do a map of Portugal in 1729. Thancks. Ana-Sofia Coutinho __________________________________________________________ Porque insiste em pagar o dobro? Compare o preço da sua ligação à Internet http://acesso.portugalmail.pt/maisbarato _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.info X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2 X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl From: Nick Millea To: nam@bodley.ox.ac.uk Subject: [MapHist] The Oxford Seminars in Cartography - 2005/06 programme Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2005 11:22:35 +0100 (GMT Standard Time) X-Mailer: Simeon for Win32 Version 4.1.5 Build (43) X-Authentication: none X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.info X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.003 required=6.31 tests=[AWL=-1.003] X-Spam-Level: Dear All, Apologies for cross-posting; this message has been sent to Carto-soc, Lis-maps. Maphist-l, Maps-l, and the Friends of TOSCA With best wishes, Nick Millea THE OXFORD SEMINARS IN CARTOGRAPHY 13th Annual Series Programme for 2005-2006 NEW VENUE +++ NEW VENUE +++ NEW VENUE +++ NEW VENUE 2005 Thursday 20 October The business of maps: a portrait of Stanford's Peter Whitfield (Map Historian) 2006 Thursday 23 February Science of the flat earth: sources of the maps in the Christian topography of Cosmas Indicopleustes Maja Kominko (Exeter College, Oxford) Thursday 18 May Maps and history Jeremy Black (University of Exeter) NEW VENUE +++ NEW VENUE +++ NEW VENUE +++ NEW VENUE All seminars commence at 5pm in the University of Oxford Centre for the Environment, South Parks Road, Oxford Thursday 15 June "TOSCA" Field Trip to Oxfordshire Record Office, Temple Cowley (Space limited - for further details, please contact: nam@bodley.ox.ac.uk or 01865 287119) The Oxford Seminars in Cartography are supported by the Friends of TOSCA, ESRI (UK) Ltd, Oxford Cartographers, and the Oxford University Centre for the Environment ________________________________________________________ Nick Millea Map Librarian, Bodleian Library, Broad Street, Oxford, OX1 3BG tel: 01865 287119 fax: 01865 277139 email: nam@bodley.ox.ac.uk homepage: http://www.bodley.ox.ac.uk/guides/maps/ ________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.info X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2 X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl From: "tony campbell" To: "*MapHist" Subject: [MapHist] Theft issues - deafened by the response Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2005 18:01:46 +0100 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.info X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.194 required=6.31 tests=[AWL=-1.194] X-Spam-Level: I hope the list will not mind if I post a brief reminder about the deeper issues arising out of the Forbes Smiley affair. Many of you will have been away during July and August, when the story was running in the US papers and on MapHist. For links to the newspaper coverage, see < http://www.maphistory.info/theftlinks.html#lit >. There will presumably be further publicity when the pre-trial proceeding takes place on October 3. My reason for writing again is to invite you, if you have not already done so, to read the opinion piece < http://www.maphistory.info/smiley.html >. This points out that map thieves tend to know the identity and value of early maps found in books. Unfortunately, many of those who have responsibility for those books, which are usually kept in a Rare Book Library, do not have that same knowledge. This is understandable, as they are not map specialists. Inevitable result: theft. Not every day, but every few years, and the massive publicity surrounding the present case will certainly have been read with interest by existing or potential thieves. The solution I am proposing is for rare book curators to match the knowledge of map thieves. The only way to do that is for them to be provided with a comprehensive list of the more vulnerable volumes containing maps, so that they can protect them properly. To produce such a list will take cartographic expertise, time and some money - but far less money than the value of what we know to have gone already, and of what will go in future, if we muddle on as before. My comments have been widely circulated, to resounding silence. Why? Because everybody entirely agrees/disagrees with what I suggest? Or is it because the whole subject is potentially too embarrassing, and involves internal power issues between the map and rare book curators? Of course it is embarrassing, but what excuse is going to be offered when (not if) it happens next time, if no adequate action is taken now? The list got its teeth into the question of weighing volumes at the issue desk. As was pointed out, this is not relevant in this case, where the need is to recognise which books are specially (arguably, uniquely) vulnerable. There is no need to weigh such; you just point a CCTV camera (making sure it is switched on) at the desk(s) in question and check, when the volume is handed back, that the map (which it is now known should be there) is present. If this deters the genuine scholar (as has been suggested) just take them aside and point out to them that, without such measures, when next they come to study the map it may well not be there. But neither this list nor ExLibris (to which rare book curators presumably belong) have shown any interest in the issue I have highlighted, and the perfectly feasible solution I am proposing. So, any thoughts now? Finally, can anybody tell us what is going on in response to the Smiley revelations? Are libraries (all of the potentially relevant libraries?) searching their shelves for the few titles so far associated with Forbes Smiley (who was, after all, 'dealing' for 25 years)? Or are they trying to find other, potentially targeted volumes? And, if so, what is the list they are working from and with whom is it being shared? I very much hope that there is an experienced map curator assisting the FBI, though there is little sign of this from what has so far emerged. Tony Campbell ****************************************** t.campbell@ockendon.clara.co.uk 'Map History / History of Cartography: THE Gateway to the Subject' http://www.maphistory.info/ [part of the WWW-Virtual Library] ****************************************** -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.10.18/89 - Release Date: 02/09/2005 _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.info X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2 X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.0.14 Date: Wed, 07 Sep 2005 12:16:34 -0700 To: maphist@geog.uu.nl From: Terry Haugen Subject: Re: [MapHist] Theft issues - deafened by the response X-UCSC-CATS-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-UCSC-CATS-MailScanner-SpamCheck: X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.info X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.644 required=6.31 tests=[AWL=-0.644] X-Spam-Level: I am a new list member and have really appreciated the time that Tony Campbell has spent discussing the issues arising out of the Forbes Smiley affair. Currently many libraries have valuable atlas's and books in the main stacks where this type of vandalism/theft may continue to occur. By refusing to acknowledge the mismatch of knowledge between many people connected with these rare materials, we are making it easy to continue stealing America's treasures. Tony Campbell's ideas are a good start in making sure Librarian's are able to protect their collections and should be incorporated into the policies of libraries housing these important materials. At 10:01 AM 9/7/2005, you wrote: >I hope the list will not mind if I post a brief reminder about the deeper >issues arising out of the Forbes Smiley affair. Many of you will have been >away during July and August, when the story was running in the US papers and >on MapHist. For links to the newspaper coverage, see < >http://www.maphistory.info/theftlinks.html#lit >. There will presumably be >further publicity when the pre-trial proceeding takes place on October 3. > >My reason for writing again is to invite you, if you have not already done >so, to read the opinion piece < http://www.maphistory.info/smiley.html >. >This points out that map thieves tend to know the identity and value of >early maps found in books. Unfortunately, many of those who have >responsibility for those books, which are usually kept in a Rare Book >Library, do not have that same knowledge. This is understandable, as they >are not map specialists. Inevitable result: theft. Not every day, but every >few years, and the massive publicity surrounding the present case will >certainly have been read with interest by existing or potential thieves. > >The solution I am proposing is for rare book curators to match the knowledge >of map thieves. The only way to do that is for them to be provided with a >comprehensive list of the more vulnerable volumes containing maps, so that >they can protect them properly. To produce such a list will take >cartographic expertise, time and some money - but far less money than the >value of what we know to have gone already, and of what will go in future, >if we muddle on as before. > >My comments have been widely circulated, to resounding silence. Why? >Because everybody entirely agrees/disagrees with what I suggest? Or is it >because the whole subject is potentially too embarrassing, and involves >internal power issues between the map and rare book curators? Of course it >is embarrassing, but what excuse is going to be offered when (not if) it >happens next time, if no adequate action is taken now? > >The list got its teeth into the question of weighing volumes at the issue >desk. As was pointed out, this is not relevant in this case, where the need >is to recognise which books are specially (arguably, uniquely) vulnerable. >There is no need to weigh such; you just point a CCTV camera (making sure it >is switched on) at the desk(s) in question and check, when the volume is >handed back, that the map (which it is now known should be there) is >present. If this deters the genuine scholar (as has been suggested) just >take them aside and point out to them that, without such measures, when next >they come to study the map it may well not be there. > >But neither this list nor ExLibris (to which rare book curators presumably >belong) have shown any interest in the issue I have highlighted, and the >perfectly feasible solution I am proposing. So, any thoughts now? > >Finally, can anybody tell us what is going on in response to the Smiley >revelations? Are libraries (all of the potentially relevant libraries?) >searching their shelves for the few titles so far associated with Forbes >Smiley (who was, after all, 'dealing' for 25 years)? Or are they trying to >find other, potentially targeted volumes? And, if so, what is the list they >are working from and with whom is it being shared? > >I very much hope that there is an experienced map curator assisting the FBI, >though there is little sign of this from what has so far emerged. > >Tony Campbell >****************************************** >t.campbell@ockendon.clara.co.uk > >'Map History / History of Cartography: THE Gateway to the Subject' >http://www.maphistory.info/ > >[part of the WWW-Virtual Library] >****************************************** > > > >-- >No virus found in this outgoing message. >Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. >Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.10.18/89 - Release Date: 02/09/2005 > >_______________________________________________________________ >MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography >hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht. >The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of >the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of >Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for >the views of the author. >List Information: http://www.maphist.info _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.info X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2 X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Date: Wed, 07 Sep 2005 15:53:02 -0500 From: "Roberto L. Mayer" Subject: Re: [MapHist] tulane To: maphist@geog.uu.nl X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-imss-version: 2.031 X-imss-result: Passed X-imss-scores: Clean:99.90000 C:2 M:3 S:5 R:5 X-imss-settings: Baseline:4 C:4 M:4 S:4 R:4 (8.0000 8.0000) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.info X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.171 required=6.31 tests=[AWL=-0.659, HTML_FONT_BIG=0.142, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_SORBS_SOCKS=0.338, RCVD_IN_SORBS_WEB=0.007] X-Spam-Level:
I have also been worrying about the Latin American Collection at Tulane, I visited it a few years ago and, if my memory does not fail me, it was on a second or third floor, I hope I am not wrong. I have also worried about the priceless NO Historic collection and have been a bit relieved at reading that the French Quarter is on slightly "higher" ground.The same goes for the museum. I hope they did not fall pray to looters.
 
Robero L. Mayer
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, September 06, 2005 6:00 PM
Subject: Re: [MapHist] tulane

I, too, have been worrying and wondering the fate of the Tulane collections, plus Historic New Orleans.  The Tulane Central America and Mesoamerican collections at Tulane are incredible and irreplaceable, with material like the Tulane Codex. The Historic New Orleans collection also has unique material, some of which is cartographic.
 
I have faith everything is o.k., but still I would like to know.  Historic New Orleans is in the French Quarter which is higher than the remainder of New Orleans, so hopefully they are o.k.
 
Dorothy Sloan
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, September 06, 2005 5:24 PM
Subject: [MapHist] tulane

does anybody have any news as to how Tulane University fared during the recent disaster and esp.their map/book collections?
Jens Bornholt
 X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2 X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl X-Sender: cobb@pop.fas.harvard.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.1.0.6 Date: Wed, 07 Sep 2005 17:01:21 -0400 To: maphist@geog.uu.nl From: David Cobb Subject: Re: [MapHist] Theft issues - deafened by the response X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.info X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.114 required=6.31 tests=[AWL=-1.114] X-Spam-Level: Tony et. al. - Tony makes a good point and, for the benefit of our rare book/special collections colleagues, I would suggest perhaps equally that cartographic curators do not have the same knowledge for some of the rare books that may be found in their collections. In the United States, for example, the 19th century produced a prodigious amount of valuable maps associated with the exploration of the western frontiers. Many of these were included in the U.S. Serial Set which is stored on open shelves in many libraries. Other special publications, not directly associated with atlases, contain many maps but also large amounts of vignettes, illustrations, and valuable discovery and exploration textual material. In addition, large research libraries have large numbers of maps in all sorts of publications stored in their open and public library stacks as well as what other libraries might designate as rare books. Most of the libraries that have these "problems" also are most likely unable to shift staff for what would be a very time consuming effort. It is not that this would not be a valuable exercise - with obvious advantageous results - but I also know I personally have a list the length of my arm (actually probably longer) of other valuable projects that we hope to accomplish. Do I dare suggest that such a project might have political implications within an institutions realm? Please, I do not need to hear from all of the idealists that might suggest that we rise above such petty issues to accomplish the general good. Unfortunately, we're talking reality here and not all cartographic collections and rare book collections "get along." There is a natural tension for collection development and preservation and these two collections are often caught in competition for shrinking dollars, staff, and priorities. Fortunately, I should quickly emphasize that I am not talking about my specific institution where a cooperative relationship exists and both of our collections contain, and often share, significant amounts of cartographic materials. It is important that we take advantage of this tragic situation to review our security procedures, review our collections, and instruct all of our staffs of the important responsibility they have in curating what are often national treasures. That said, we all know the perfect security system -- lock the door and throw the key away! Fortunately, the majority of collections are committed to sharing their collections, improving access to them, and preserving them for future generations. Unfortunately, we have learned that there is a very small segment of our users who have little respect for these materials beyond their possible financial renumeration. This is now a fact that will have an impact on all of our collections: more photo id's will be required; special collections reading rooms will have storage lockers outside for coats, briefcases, etc.; and there will be more CCTV monitoring; and there will be restrictions as to how many items users will be able to use at any one time. However, access must be maintained. We cannot let these very few ruin scholarship or force scholars away from certain institutions. At the same time, I cannot imagine trying to identify the many thousands of rare books in all of our collections that would include rare or significant maps. Actually, I can imagine it, and it is scary. And, how do we define rare or significant - a monetary value. Many maps could easily be defined as significant for a particular region but might not be significantly valuable in a monetary sense. I do not wish to completely dismiss Tony thoughts and I believe it is in the best interests of all of our research collections that we each share them with our rare book colleagues as a means to begin a discussion to share more information - for that, Tony deserves an applause in my mind. David At 01:01 PM 9/7/2005, you wrote: >I hope the list will not mind if I post a brief reminder about the deeper >issues arising out of the Forbes Smiley affair. Many of you will have been >away during July and August, when the story was running in the US papers and >on MapHist. For links to the newspaper coverage, see < >http://www.maphistory.info/theftlinks.html#lit >. There will presumably be >further publicity when the pre-trial proceeding takes place on October 3. > >My reason for writing again is to invite you, if you have not already done >so, to read the opinion piece < http://www.maphistory.info/smiley.html >. >This points out that map thieves tend to know the identity and value of >early maps found in books. Unfortunately, many of those who have >responsibility for those books, which are usually kept in a Rare Book >Library, do not have that same knowledge. This is understandable, as they >are not map specialists. Inevitable result: theft. Not every day, but every >few years, and the massive publicity surrounding the present case will >certainly have been read with interest by existing or potential thieves. > >The solution I am proposing is for rare book curators to match the knowledge >of map thieves. The only way to do that is for them to be provided with a >comprehensive list of the more vulnerable volumes containing maps, so that >they can protect them properly. To produce such a list will take >cartographic expertise, time and some money - but far less money than the >value of what we know to have gone already, and of what will go in future, >if we muddle on as before. > >My comments have been widely circulated, to resounding silence. Why? >Because everybody entirely agrees/disagrees with what I suggest? Or is it >because the whole subject is potentially too embarrassing, and involves >internal power issues between the map and rare book curators? Of course it >is embarrassing, but what excuse is going to be offered when (not if) it >happens next time, if no adequate action is taken now? > >The list got its teeth into the question of weighing volumes at the issue >desk. As was pointed out, this is not relevant in this case, where the need >is to recognise which books are specially (arguably, uniquely) vulnerable. >There is no need to weigh such; you just point a CCTV camera (making sure it >is switched on) at the desk(s) in question and check, when the volume is >handed back, that the map (which it is now known should be there) is >present. If this deters the genuine scholar (as has been suggested) just >take them aside and point out to them that, without such measures, when next >they come to study the map it may well not be there. > >But neither this list nor ExLibris (to which rare book curators presumably >belong) have shown any interest in the issue I have highlighted, and the >perfectly feasible solution I am proposing. So, any thoughts now? > >Finally, can anybody tell us what is going on in response to the Smiley >revelations? Are libraries (all of the potentially relevant libraries?) >searching their shelves for the few titles so far associated with Forbes >Smiley (who was, after all, 'dealing' for 25 years)? Or are they trying to >find other, potentially targeted volumes? And, if so, what is the list they >are working from and with whom is it being shared? > >I very much hope that there is an experienced map curator assisting the FBI, >though there is little sign of this from what has so far emerged. > >Tony Campbell >****************************************** >t.campbell@ockendon.clara.co.uk > >'Map History / History of Cartography: THE Gateway to the Subject' >http://www.maphistory.info/ > >[part of the WWW-Virtual Library] >****************************************** > > > >-- >No virus found in this outgoing message. >Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. >Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.10.18/89 - Release Date: 02/09/2005 > >_______________________________________________________________ >MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography >hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht. >The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of >the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of >Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for >the views of the author. >List Information: http://www.maphist.info *************************************************************************** David A. Cobb Tel. 617.495.2417 Harvard Map Collection FAX 617.496.0440 Harvard College Library Email: cobb@fas.harvard.edu Cambridge, MA 02138 HTTP://hcl.harvard.edu/maps ************************** VERITAS **************************************** _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.info X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2 X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2005 14:58:50 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: [MapHist] Theft issues - deafened by the response From: "Barry Ruderman" To: maphist@geog.uu.nl User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.3a X-Mailer: SquirrelMail/1.4.3a X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at teamspirit.com X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.info X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.087 required=6.31 tests=[AWL=-1.087] X-Spam-Level: Tony et al., At the risk of being premature, I have an offer I'm happy to make. As a dealer, I have a database of over 15,000 priced maps, sold and unsold. The database is set up to find maps by maker and title, with other identifying information (size, etc.). Dealers are typically leary about sharing historical pricing information once a map is sold, but for the purpose of creating a master data base of "values" for institutions, it might be helpful. The same information is available with American Book Prices Current and the Antique Map Price Guide, but these compilations are heavy with common and inexpensive material, as many dealers don't publish the prices of their best material in a printed catalogue and only a small percentage of what is sold gets into print. Obviously, these values not scientific. When the map was sold, its condition, and the subjective thoughts of the dealer influence pricing, but only in a relative sense. I would be delighted to assist in developing a public repository of values which would be limited only to the keepers of institutional collections (not the general public), in order to create a ready database of "what its worth, more or less." I recognize that creating the database is much less of an issue than using it and administering the consequences of how the books with rarer material are handled, but since its potentially a piece of the puzzle, the group is free to use it as they see fit. Barry > > Tony et. al. - > > Tony makes a good point and, for the benefit of our rare book/special > collections colleagues, I would suggest perhaps equally that cartographic > curators do not have the same knowledge for some of the rare books that > may > be found in their collections. In the United States, for example, the 19th > century produced a prodigious amount of valuable maps associated with the > exploration of the western frontiers. Many of these were included in the > U.S. Serial Set which is stored on open shelves in many libraries. Other > special publications, not directly associated with atlases, contain many > maps but also large amounts of vignettes, illustrations, and valuable > discovery and exploration textual material. > > In addition, large research libraries have large numbers of maps in all > sorts of publications stored in their open and public library stacks as > well as what other libraries might designate as rare books. Most of the > libraries that have these "problems" also are most likely unable to shift > staff for what would be a very time consuming effort. It is not that this > would not be a valuable exercise - with obvious advantageous results - but > I also know I personally have a list the length of my arm (actually > probably longer) of other valuable projects that we hope to accomplish. > > Do I dare suggest that such a project might have political implications > within an institutions realm? Please, I do not need to hear from all of > the > idealists that might suggest that we rise above such petty issues to > accomplish the general good. Unfortunately, we're talking reality here and > not all cartographic collections and rare book collections "get along." > There is a natural tension for collection development and preservation and > these two collections are often caught in competition for shrinking > dollars, staff, and priorities. Fortunately, I should quickly emphasize > that I am not talking about my specific institution where a cooperative > relationship exists and both of our collections contain, and often share, > significant amounts of cartographic materials. > > It is important that we take advantage of this tragic situation to review > our security procedures, review our collections, and instruct all of our > staffs of the important responsibility they have in curating what are > often > national treasures. That said, we all know the perfect security system -- > lock the door and throw the key away! Fortunately, the majority of > collections are committed to sharing their collections, improving access > to > them, and preserving them for future generations. Unfortunately, we have > learned that there is a very small segment of our users who have little > respect for these materials beyond their possible financial renumeration. > This is now a fact that will have an impact on all of our collections: > more > photo id's will be required; special collections reading rooms will have > storage lockers outside for coats, briefcases, etc.; and there will be > more > CCTV monitoring; and there will be restrictions as to how many items users > will be able to use at any one time. However, access must be maintained. > We > cannot let these very few ruin scholarship or force scholars away from > certain institutions. > > At the same time, I cannot imagine trying to identify the many thousands > of > rare books in all of our collections that would include rare or > significant > maps. Actually, I can imagine it, and it is scary. And, how do we define > rare or significant - a monetary value. Many maps could easily be defined > as significant for a particular region but might not be significantly > valuable in a monetary sense. > > I do not wish to completely dismiss Tony thoughts and I believe it is in > the best interests of all of our research collections that we each share > them with our rare book colleagues as a means to begin a discussion to > share more information - for that, Tony deserves an applause in my mind. > > David > > At 01:01 PM 9/7/2005, you wrote: >>I hope the list will not mind if I post a brief reminder about the deeper >>issues arising out of the Forbes Smiley affair. Many of you will have >> been >>away during July and August, when the story was running in the US papers >> and >>on MapHist. For links to the newspaper coverage, see < >>http://www.maphistory.info/theftlinks.html#lit >. There will presumably >> be >>further publicity when the pre-trial proceeding takes place on October 3. >> >>My reason for writing again is to invite you, if you have not already >> done >>so, to read the opinion piece < http://www.maphistory.info/smiley.html >. >>This points out that map thieves tend to know the identity and value of >>early maps found in books. Unfortunately, many of those who have >>responsibility for those books, which are usually kept in a Rare Book >>Library, do not have that same knowledge. This is understandable, as >> they >>are not map specialists. Inevitable result: theft. Not every day, but >> every >>few years, and the massive publicity surrounding the present case will >>certainly have been read with interest by existing or potential thieves. >> >>The solution I am proposing is for rare book curators to match the >> knowledge >>of map thieves. The only way to do that is for them to be provided with >> a >>comprehensive list of the more vulnerable volumes containing maps, so >> that >>they can protect them properly. To produce such a list will take >>cartographic expertise, time and some money - but far less money than the >>value of what we know to have gone already, and of what will go in >> future, >>if we muddle on as before. >> >>My comments have been widely circulated, to resounding silence. Why? >>Because everybody entirely agrees/disagrees with what I suggest? Or is >> it >>because the whole subject is potentially too embarrassing, and involves >>internal power issues between the map and rare book curators? Of course >> it >>is embarrassing, but what excuse is going to be offered when (not if) it >>happens next time, if no adequate action is taken now? >> >>The list got its teeth into the question of weighing volumes at the issue >>desk. As was pointed out, this is not relevant in this case, where the >> need >>is to recognise which books are specially (arguably, uniquely) >> vulnerable. >>There is no need to weigh such; you just point a CCTV camera (making sure >> it >>is switched on) at the desk(s) in question and check, when the volume is >>handed back, that the map (which it is now known should be there) is >>present. If this deters the genuine scholar (as has been suggested) just >>take them aside and point out to them that, without such measures, when >> next >>they come to study the map it may well not be there. >> >>But neither this list nor ExLibris (to which rare book curators >> presumably >>belong) have shown any interest in the issue I have highlighted, and the >>perfectly feasible solution I am proposing. So, any thoughts now? >> >>Finally, can anybody tell us what is going on in response to the Smiley >>revelations? Are libraries (all of the potentially relevant libraries?) >>searching their shelves for the few titles so far associated with Forbes >>Smiley (who was, after all, 'dealing' for 25 years)? Or are they trying >> to >>find other, potentially targeted volumes? And, if so, what is the list >> they >>are working from and with whom is it being shared? >> >>I very much hope that there is an experienced map curator assisting the >> FBI, >>though there is little sign of this from what has so far emerged. >> >>Tony Campbell >>****************************************** >>t.campbell@ockendon.clara.co.uk >> >>'Map History / History of Cartography: THE Gateway to the Subject' >>http://www.maphistory.info/ >> >>[part of the WWW-Virtual Library] >>****************************************** >> >> >> >>-- >>No virus found in this outgoing message. >>Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. >>Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.10.18/89 - Release Date: >> 02/09/2005 >> >>_______________________________________________________________ >>MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography >>hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht. >>The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of >>the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of >>Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for >>the views of the author. >>List Information: http://www.maphist.info > > *************************************************************************** > David A. Cobb Tel. 617.495.2417 > Harvard Map Collection FAX 617.496.0440 > Harvard College Library Email: > cobb@fas.harvard.edu > Cambridge, MA 02138 > HTTP://hcl.harvard.edu/maps > ************************** VERITAS > **************************************** > > _______________________________________________________________ > MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography > hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht. > The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of > the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of > Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for > the views of the author. > List Information: http://www.maphist.info > -- Barry Ruderman 1298 Prospect, Suite 2C La Jolla, CA 92037 (858) 551-8500 (858) 551-8593 (fax) blr@raremaps.com www.raremaps.com _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.info X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2 X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=hIPU7oa6W5McKv22/J+kIZqCQMdfZuuMBkhuameZmhs7gwsmGiPyh1HrgjmVEDr6; h=Received:Message-ID:From:To:References:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Priority:X-MSMail-Priority:X-Mailer:X-MimeOLE:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; From: "Dorothy Sloan" To: Subject: Re: [MapHist] Theft issues - deafened by the response Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2005 22:54:34 -0500 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-ELNK-Trace: f33403415f50180b84b095f4ad0a658b3394c2b657dba48e74bf435c0eb9d478fed25d3098752d29b3765b94e4ea53ae5b00bbabc2b2d8c8350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 67.142.83.101 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.info X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.771 required=6.31 tests=[AWL=-0.771] X-Spam-Level: I, too, am willing to share my information on values of maps and rare books with maps, if wanted. I would be glad to pinpoint books on Texas, California, the Southwest U.S. and Mexico with maps of value and special interest. Pro bono. Many approaches are needed to a problem we are all forced to face on several levels. In the matter of thefts in our world of rare books, maps, and manuscripts, regretfully I have noted the desire not to deal with these matters. But we must. There is no single solution, and all the wrongs can never be righted, but cooperation and openness will assist greatly. Dorothy Sloan www.dsloan.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Barry Ruderman" To: Sent: Wednesday, September 07, 2005 4:58 PM Subject: Re: [MapHist] Theft issues - deafened by the response > Tony et al., > > At the risk of being premature, I have an offer I'm happy to make. > > As a dealer, I have a database of over 15,000 priced maps, sold and > unsold. The database is set up to find maps by maker and title, with > other identifying information (size, etc.). > > Dealers are typically leary about sharing historical pricing information > once a map is sold, but for the purpose of creating a master data base of > "values" for institutions, it might be helpful. The same information is > available with American Book Prices Current and the Antique Map Price > Guide, but these compilations are heavy with common and inexpensive > material, as many dealers don't publish the prices of their best material > in a printed catalogue and only a small percentage of what is sold gets > into print. > > Obviously, these values not scientific. When the map was sold, its > condition, and the subjective thoughts of the dealer influence pricing, > but only in a relative sense. > > I would be delighted to assist in developing a public repository of values > which would be limited only to the keepers of institutional collections > (not the general public), in order to create a ready database of "what its > worth, more or less." > > I recognize that creating the database is much less of an issue than using > it and administering the consequences of how the books with rarer material > are handled, but since its potentially a piece of the puzzle, the group is > free to use it as they see fit. > > Barry > > > > > >> >> Tony et. al. - >> >> Tony makes a good point and, for the benefit of our rare book/special >> collections colleagues, I would suggest perhaps equally that cartographic >> curators do not have the same knowledge for some of the rare books that >> may >> be found in their collections. In the United States, for example, the >> 19th >> century produced a prodigious amount of valuable maps associated with the >> exploration of the western frontiers. Many of these were included in the >> U.S. Serial Set which is stored on open shelves in many libraries. Other >> special publications, not directly associated with atlases, contain many >> maps but also large amounts of vignettes, illustrations, and valuable >> discovery and exploration textual material. >> >> In addition, large research libraries have large numbers of maps in all >> sorts of publications stored in their open and public library stacks as >> well as what other libraries might designate as rare books. Most of the >> libraries that have these "problems" also are most likely unable to shift >> staff for what would be a very time consuming effort. It is not that this >> would not be a valuable exercise - with obvious advantageous results - >> but >> I also know I personally have a list the length of my arm (actually >> probably longer) of other valuable projects that we hope to accomplish. >> >> Do I dare suggest that such a project might have political implications >> within an institutions realm? Please, I do not need to hear from all of >> the >> idealists that might suggest that we rise above such petty issues to >> accomplish the general good. Unfortunately, we're talking reality here >> and >> not all cartographic collections and rare book collections "get along." >> There is a natural tension for collection development and preservation >> and >> these two collections are often caught in competition for shrinking >> dollars, staff, and priorities. Fortunately, I should quickly emphasize >> that I am not talking about my specific institution where a cooperative >> relationship exists and both of our collections contain, and often share, >> significant amounts of cartographic materials. >> >> It is important that we take advantage of this tragic situation to review >> our security procedures, review our collections, and instruct all of our >> staffs of the important responsibility they have in curating what are >> often >> national treasures. That said, we all know the perfect security system -- >> lock the door and throw the key away! Fortunately, the majority of >> collections are committed to sharing their collections, improving access >> to >> them, and preserving them for future generations. Unfortunately, we have >> learned that there is a very small segment of our users who have little >> respect for these materials beyond their possible financial renumeration. >> This is now a fact that will have an impact on all of our collections: >> more >> photo id's will be required; special collections reading rooms will have >> storage lockers outside for coats, briefcases, etc.; and there will be >> more >> CCTV monitoring; and there will be restrictions as to how many items >> users >> will be able to use at any one time. However, access must be maintained. >> We >> cannot let these very few ruin scholarship or force scholars away from >> certain institutions. >> >> At the same time, I cannot imagine trying to identify the many thousands >> of >> rare books in all of our collections that would include rare or >> significant >> maps. Actually, I can imagine it, and it is scary. And, how do we define >> rare or significant - a monetary value. Many maps could easily be defined >> as significant for a particular region but might not be significantly >> valuable in a monetary sense. >> >> I do not wish to completely dismiss Tony thoughts and I believe it is in >> the best interests of all of our research collections that we each share >> them with our rare book colleagues as a means to begin a discussion to >> share more information - for that, Tony deserves an applause in my mind. >> >> David >> >> At 01:01 PM 9/7/2005, you wrote: >>>I hope the list will not mind if I post a brief reminder about the deeper >>>issues arising out of the Forbes Smiley affair. Many of you will have >>> been >>>away during July and August, when the story was running in the US papers >>> and >>>on MapHist. For links to the newspaper coverage, see < >>>http://www.maphistory.info/theftlinks.html#lit >. There will presumably >>> be >>>further publicity when the pre-trial proceeding takes place on October 3. >>> >>>My reason for writing again is to invite you, if you have not already >>> done >>>so, to read the opinion piece < http://www.maphistory.info/smiley.html >. >>>This points out that map thieves tend to know the identity and value of >>>early maps found in books. Unfortunately, many of those who have >>>responsibility for those books, which are usually kept in a Rare Book >>>Library, do not have that same knowledge. This is understandable, as >>> they >>>are not map specialists. Inevitable result: theft. Not every day, but >>> every >>>few years, and the massive publicity surrounding the present case will >>>certainly have been read with interest by existing or potential thieves. >>> >>>The solution I am proposing is for rare book curators to match the >>> knowledge >>>of map thieves. The only way to do that is for them to be provided with >>> a >>>comprehensive list of the more vulnerable volumes containing maps, so >>> that >>>they can protect them properly. To produce such a list will take >>>cartographic expertise, time and some money - but far less money than the >>>value of what we know to have gone already, and of what will go in >>> future, >>>if we muddle on as before. >>> >>>My comments have been widely circulated, to resounding silence. Why? >>>Because everybody entirely agrees/disagrees with what I suggest? Or is >>> it >>>because the whole subject is potentially too embarrassing, and involves >>>internal power issues between the map and rare book curators? Of course >>> it >>>is embarrassing, but what excuse is going to be offered when (not if) it >>>happens next time, if no adequate action is taken now? >>> >>>The list got its teeth into the question of weighing volumes at the issue >>>desk. As was pointed out, this is not relevant in this case, where the >>> need >>>is to recognise which books are specially (arguably, uniquely) >>> vulnerable. >>>There is no need to weigh such; you just point a CCTV camera (making sure >>> it >>>is switched on) at the desk(s) in question and check, when the volume is >>>handed back, that the map (which it is now known should be there) is >>>present. If this deters the genuine scholar (as has been suggested) just >>>take them aside and point out to them that, without such measures, when >>> next >>>they come to study the map it may well not be there. >>> >>>But neither this list nor ExLibris (to which rare book curators >>> presumably >>>belong) have shown any interest in the issue I have highlighted, and the >>>perfectly feasible solution I am proposing. So, any thoughts now? >>> >>>Finally, can anybody tell us what is going on in response to the Smiley >>>revelations? Are libraries (all of the potentially relevant libraries?) >>>searching their shelves for the few titles so far associated with Forbes >>>Smiley (who was, after all, 'dealing' for 25 years)? Or are they trying >>> to >>>find other, potentially targeted volumes? And, if so, what is the list >>> they >>>are working from and with whom is it being shared? >>> >>>I very much hope that there is an experienced map curator assisting the >>> FBI, >>>though there is little sign of this from what has so far emerged. >>> >>>Tony Campbell >>>****************************************** >>>t.campbell@ockendon.clara.co.uk >>> >>>'Map History / History of Cartography: THE Gateway to the Subject' >>>http://www.maphistory.info/ >>> >>>[part of the WWW-Virtual Library] >>>****************************************** >>> >>> >>> >>>-- >>>No virus found in this outgoing message. >>>Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. >>>Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.10.18/89 - Release Date: >>> 02/09/2005 >>> >>>_______________________________________________________________ >>>MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography >>>hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht. >>>The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of >>>the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of >>>Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for >>>the views of the author. >>>List Information: http://www.maphist.info >> >> *************************************************************************** >> David A. Cobb Tel. 617.495.2417 >> Harvard Map Collection FAX 617.496.0440 >> Harvard College Library Email: >> cobb@fas.harvard.edu >> Cambridge, MA 02138 >> HTTP://hcl.harvard.edu/maps >> ************************** VERITAS >> **************************************** >> >> _______________________________________________________________ >> MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography >> hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht. >> The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of >> the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of >> Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for >> the views of the author. >> List Information: http://www.maphist.info >> > > > -- > Barry Ruderman > 1298 Prospect, Suite 2C > La Jolla, CA 92037 > (858) 551-8500 > (858) 551-8593 (fax) > blr@raremaps.com > www.raremaps.com > > _______________________________________________________________ > MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography > hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht. > The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of > the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of > Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for > the views of the author. > List Information: http://www.maphist.info > _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.info X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2 X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl From: Dgestetner1@aol.com Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 05:15:23 EDT Subject: Re: [MapHist] Theft issues - deafened by the response To: maphist@geog.uu.nl X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5014 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.info X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.133 required=6.31 tests=[AWL=-0.001, HTML_50_60=0.087, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_QP_LONG_LINE=0.039, NO_REAL_NAME=0.007, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Level:
I am a collector and have been following the Smiley correspondence for obvious reasons.
 
What strikes me is that although dealers and librarians have waxed eloquently and at length, to the best of my recollection not once has the position, the possible reaction  and  the feelings of collectors been referred to or considered.
 X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2 X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Subject: RE: [MapHist] Theft issues - deafened by the response Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 11:10:41 +0100 X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [MapHist] Theft issues - deafened by the response Thread-Index: AcW0VeCyVfVsx31yTM6Cl/dAZOnBkAABvCxQ From: "Francis Herbert" To: X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.info X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.944 required=6.31 tests=[AWL=-1.183, HTML_80_90=0.146, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, HTML_TEXT_AFTER_BODY=0.061, HTML_TEXT_AFTER_HTML=0.031] X-Spam-Level:

David:

 

Now’s your chance – the field is yours!  As also for the worldwide IMCoS (et al.) membership.

 

Francis (also a [private] collector)

f.herbert@rgs.org

 

http://www.rgs.org [see ‘Collections’ – including some online catalogues (e.g., many maps up to ca 1940)]

 

http://images.rgs.org

 

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl [mailto:owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl] On Behalf Of Dgestetner1@aol.com
Sent: 08 September 2005 10:15 AM
To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
Subject: Re: [MapHist] Theft issues - deafened by the response

 

I am a collector and have been following the Smiley correspondence for obvious reasons.

 

What strikes me is that although dealers and librarians have waxed eloquently and at length, to the best of my recollection not once has the position, the possible reaction  and  the feelings of collectors been referred to or considered.

 X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2 X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.4 Date: Thu, 08 Sep 2005 07:50:51 -0400 From: "Pam van Ee" To: Subject: RE: [MapHist] Theft issues - deafened by the response X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.info X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.181 required=6.31 tests=[AWL=-1.181] X-Spam-Level: Dear Colleagues and Friends-- I would like to point out that while there has not been a public discussion amongst curatorial and specialist staff of map collecting institutions about our concerns from the viewpoint of buyers, we are well acquainted with the collectors' "side" of the issue in a number of ways. First, we are really collectors ourselves and purchase our retrospective material primarily through map dealers. In addition, we sometimes receive as gifts the collections of others who again have purchased many of their maps through dealers. We also seldom know the chain of ownership that preceeded a consigner's placing items at auction, except in the case of extremely rare pieces. We are basically all in the same boat here; when it comes to thefts we are both on the receiving end. What is different is that we are being victimized twice, once when the theft takes place from one of our collections and again when or if we inadvertantly purchase stolen material. Routinely we make inquiries about the original owner of the map and often the answer is "I bought it in Europe" or "I bought it from dealer X or owner Y who bought it at auction." We do know how you feel because we are feeling the same way ourselves, and have empathy for everyone who has been adversely affected by Smiley and his ilk. Patricia Molen van Ee Specialist in Cartographic History Geogrphy and Map Division Library of Congress >>> F.Herbert@RGS.org 09/08/05 6:10 AM >>> David: Now's your chance - the field is yours! As also for the worldwide IMCoS (et al.) membership. Francis (also a [private] collector) f.herbert@rgs.org http://www.rgs.org [see 'Collections' - including some online catalogues (e.g., many maps up to ca 1940)] http://images.rgs.org -----Original Message----- From: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl [mailto:owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl] On Behalf Of Dgestetner1@aol.com Sent: 08 September 2005 10:15 AM To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Subject: Re: [MapHist] Theft issues - deafened by the response I am a collector and have been following the Smiley correspondence for obvious reasons. What strikes me is that although dealers and librarians have waxed eloquently and at length, to the best of my recollection not once has the position, the possible reaction and the feelings of collectors been referred to or considered. _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.info X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2 X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl From: "J. B. Post" To: Subject: [MapHist] Cartifacts etc. Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 08:25:04 -0400 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.info X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.776 required=6.31 tests=[AWL=-0.864, HTML_50_60=0.087, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001] X-Spam-Level:
   The current Bas Bleu catalog (website http://www.basbleu.com) has map neckties (New York, Chicago, Boston) listed for $39.99 each and map scarves (Rome, London, Paris, New York, San Francisco, Washington) listed for $65.00 each.  Also being sold are the boxed CITY WALKS for New York, Paris, London, & San Francisco ($14.95 each)and the books THE ISLAND AT THE CENTER OF THE WORLD ($14.95) and THE MAPMAKER'S WIFE ($13.00).  A map of US lighthouses ($10.95) and a global puzzle are also vended ($14.95). 
 
                 JBP
 
 X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2 X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl From: "john a w lock" To: Subject: Re: [MapHist] Cartifacts etc. Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 13:32:46 +0100 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4927.1200 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.info X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.564 required=6.31 tests=[AWL=-0.652, HTML_50_60=0.087, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001] X-Spam-Level:
One bizarre category I remember seeing back in the 1990s was notepads made up of what looked like failed Ordnance Survey maps - available as I recall in all sizes from A4 down. At present the London Metropolitan Archives is currently selling as 'wrapping paper' what looks to me suspiciously like failed scans of 16th century court records - I shall look out for the map equivalent!
 
 
 
 
----- Original Message -----
From: J. B. Post
Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 1:25 PM
Subject: [MapHist] Cartifacts etc.

   The current Bas Bleu catalog (website http://www.basbleu.com) has map neckties (New York, Chicago, Boston) listed for $39.99 each and map scarves (Rome, London, Paris, New York, San Francisco, Washington) listed for $65.00 each.  Also being sold are the boxed CITY WALKS for New York, Paris, London, & San Francisco ($14.95 each)and the books THE ISLAND AT THE CENTER OF THE WORLD ($14.95) and THE MAPMAKER'S WIFE ($13.00).  A map of US lighthouses ($10.95) and a global puzzle are also vended ($14.95). 
 
                 JBP
 
 X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2 X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.3.4 Date: Thu, 08 Sep 2005 14:41:34 +0200 To: maphist@geog.uu.nl From: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl (by way of List-owner MapHist ) Subject: Re: [MapHist] Garnpre-french_engraver_18th_century X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.info X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.114 required=6.31 tests=[AWL=-1.225, SUBJ_HAS_UNIQ_ID=1.339] X-Spam-Level: Non-member submission from ["Dr. Paul van den Brink" ] (Paul - je staat met een ander adres ingeschreven - Peter). Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2005 09:45:07 +0200 (CEST) L.s. You should consult U. Thieme "Allgemeines Lexikon der bildenden Künstler von der Antike bis zur Gegenwart / unter Mitw. von 300 Fachgelehrten des In- und Auslandes ; hrsg. von Ulrich Thieme und Felix Becker. - Leipzig : Engelmann, 1907-1950. or F.G. Waller. Biographisch woordenboek van Noord-Nederlandsche graveurs / uitg. door beheerders van het Wallerfonds en bewerkt door W.R. Juynboll. - 's-Gravenhage : Nijhoff, 1938. I do understand that this information is probably not available where you live. I will however consult them tomorrow and mail the result to the list Yours sincerly Dr. Paul van den Brink University of Utrecht Faculty of Geosciences Explokart Research Team The Netherlands _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.info X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2 X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.3.4 Date: Thu, 08 Sep 2005 14:44:01 +0200 To: maphist@geog.uu.nl From: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl (by way of List-owner MapHist ) Subject: Re: [MapHist] Theft issues - deafened by the response X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.info X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.554 required=6.31 tests=[AWL=-0.554] X-Spam-Level: Non-member submission from [mead cain ] I must say that David's is not an encouraging response. Tony is in a unique position to give guidance and to assess the current and potential magnitude of what is probably an epidemic of map thefts, because he has been both a top dealer and map librarian. If he is alarmed we should all be alarmed. The ignorance of the scarcity value of maps (and books) among librarians is appalling. And the lack of bibliographic control of rare maps in books (other than atlases) is regretable. But for any single institution, gaining bibliographic control over the key volumes, which will almost always be in the hundreds rather than thousands, will not be that big a job for someone who is reasonably knowledgeable, motivated, etc. The volumes are usually shelved in clusters corresponding to relevant subject classifications, and with knowledge of "valuable" authors and titles (when in doubt, flipping through volumes), one can go through a collection quite quickly. There are a few very good bibliographic guides extant -- I mentioned the Nordenskjold collection catalog a while ago -- that can be used to check for completeness within volumes. Once you know what you have, you can decide on how to best protect the rarites. Librarians must take responsibility for the safety of their collections. This presupposes that they know what they have, and its market value. Librarians must be able to match the passion and knowledge of the thieves that are looting their collections, otherwise they have no chance of stopping them. Mead =20 On 9/7/05, David Cobb wrote: >=20 > Tony et. al. - >=20 > Tony makes a good point and, for the benefit of our rare book/special > collections colleagues, I would suggest perhaps equally that cartographic > curators do not have the same knowledge for some of the rare books that m= ay > be found in their collections. In the United States, for example, the 19t= h > century produced a prodigious amount of valuable maps associated with the > exploration of the western frontiers. Many of these were included in the > U.S. Serial Set which is stored on open shelves in many libraries. Other > special publications, not directly associated with atlases, contain many > maps but also large amounts of vignettes, illustrations, and valuable > discovery and exploration textual material. >=20 > In addition, large research libraries have large numbers of maps in all > sorts of publications stored in their open and public library stacks as > well as what other libraries might designate as rare books. Most of the > libraries that have these "problems" also are most likely unable to shift > staff for what would be a very time consuming effort. It is not that this > would not be a valuable exercise - with obvious advantageous results - bu= t > I also know I personally have a list the length of my arm (actually > probably longer) of other valuable projects that we hope to accomplish. >=20 > Do I dare suggest that such a project might have political implications > within an institutions realm? Please, I do not need to hear from all of t= he > idealists that might suggest that we rise above such petty issues to > accomplish the general good. Unfortunately, we're talking reality here an= d > not all cartographic collections and rare book collections "get along." > There is a natural tension for collection development and preservation an= d > these two collections are often caught in competition for shrinking > dollars, staff, and priorities. Fortunately, I should quickly emphasize > that I am not talking about my specific institution where a cooperative > relationship exists and both of our collections contain, and often share, > significant amounts of cartographic materials. >=20 > It is important that we take advantage of this tragic situation to review > our security procedures, review our collections, and instruct all of our > staffs of the important responsibility they have in curating what are oft= en > national treasures. That said, we all know the perfect security system -- > lock the door and throw the key away! Fortunately, the majority of > collections are committed to sharing their collections, improving access = to > them, and preserving them for future generations. Unfortunately, we have > learned that there is a very small segment of our users who have little > respect for these materials beyond their possible financial renumeration. > This is now a fact that will have an impact on all of our collections: mo= re > photo id's will be required; special collections reading rooms will have > storage lockers outside for coats, briefcases, etc.; and there will be mo= re > CCTV monitoring; and there will be restrictions as to how many items user= s > will be able to use at any one time. However, access must be maintained. = We > cannot let these very few ruin scholarship or force scholars away from > certain institutions. >=20 > At the same time, I cannot imagine trying to identify the many thousands = of > rare books in all of our collections that would include rare or significa= nt > maps. Actually, I can imagine it, and it is scary. And, how do we define > rare or significant - a monetary value. Many maps could easily be defined > as significant for a particular region but might not be significantly > valuable in a monetary sense. >=20 > I do not wish to completely dismiss Tony thoughts and I believe it is in > the best interests of all of our research collections that we each share > them with our rare book colleagues as a means to begin a discussion to > share more information - for that, Tony deserves an applause in my mind. >=20 > David >=20 _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.info X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2 X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 09:22:19 -0400 To: maphist@geog.uu.nl From: John Day Subject: Re: [MapHist] Theft issues - deafened by the response X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86rc1/1069/Wed Sep 7 11:08:51 2005 on pcls4.std.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.info X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.145 required=6.31 tests=[AWL=-0.145] X-Spam-Level: Not to belabor the obvious, but if one wants to index or track maps in books, isn't also necessary to do so with most any illustrations in rare books? Or is the market in other plates sufficiently small and less value to be less a problem? John _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.info X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2 X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=PT/n0PQsjnb+9SBv8W7F7K4ATdxZZQW5THZZ2eXOJJ75Mw47L1EaQTp+Ic1yMXhx; h=Received:Message-ID:Date:From:Reply-To:To:Subject:Mime-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Mailer:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 09:44:22 -0400 (GMT-04:00) From: Joel Kovarsky To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Subject: Re: [MapHist] Theft issues - deafened by the response X-Mailer: Earthlink Zoo Mail 1.0 X-ELNK-Trace: 41b0e470252eb2bfb2bc8d55de2d85fa1aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec791fa7bc009936e1811253b95f3db8a35d350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 209.86.224.31 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.info X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.502 required=6.31 tests=[AWL=-0.502] X-Spam-Level: -----Original Message----- From: John Day Not to belabor the obvious, but if one wants to index or track maps in books, isn't also necessary to do so with most any illustrations in rare books? I think this ties to what David Cobb was saying, about the overwhelming nature of the task, and the difficulty in getting expert analysis to focus on all the potential problems with respect to evaluation of all the books, maps, illustrations, etc. You'd need a number of experts with different skills tackling this, and it is daunting. One could make the case that librarians-in-training (MIS, etc.) should be exposed to these issues in depth in their early training, but even with that, the logistics of the job are at issue. I don't think anyone says that nothing should be done, but putting together a workable method could take a while, and enhanced physical security (while maintaining access) may be an easier initial approach, assuming funding issues may be more manageable. Tony mentions that the costs of the security response may be less than eventual loss of material, but you still have to get the funding up-front to make the changes...and major libraries have a number of budgetary concerns here. Joel Kovarsky _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.info X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2 X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=NXcG7lR2Hd/cLTQjzyyEYdU8yTA7szIeWmCR8te4NN9RqBMwQ/plzF8tqkwFgUyx; h=Received:Message-ID:From:To:References:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-Priority:X-MSMail-Priority:X-Mailer:X-MimeOLE:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; From: "Dorothy Sloan" To: Subject: Re: [MapHist] Theft issues - deafened by the response Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 09:57:28 -0500 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-ELNK-Trace: f33403415f50180b84b095f4ad0a658b3394c2b657dba48e74bf435c0eb9d478fed25d3098752d29241be48bd2350a3b0447af83a238b309350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 67.142.83.101 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.info X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.586 required=6.31 tests=[AWL=-0.764, HTML_40_50=0.035, HTML_FONT_BIG=0.142, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001] X-Spam-Level:
As a dealer and auction house, I am painfully and intimately aware of how difficult it can be for a collector who has through no fault of his or her own purchased material of questionable provenance from a dealer or auction house.  It is traumatic.  In most cases, it turns out that the dealer or auction house has sold the material in innocence without being aware of the problem.  The dealer or auction house in this situation is often a victim, too.  This is the classic situation in which communication can deteriorate into fellow victims blaming one another rather that working on the root of the problem.
 
It is a terrible result for a collector to engage in the enlightening pursuit of historic materials for interest, enjoyment, and/or future donation, and then be placed in the position of economic loss, embarrassment, and possible legal difficulties.  I think most people recognize this. 
 
What needs to happen is for everyone involved in rare books, maps, manuscripts, and historic artifacts to become intensely aware of such problems and to work together in a positive way in a very challenging situation.
 
Every acquisition must be studied carefully as to authenticity, provenance, and cultural patrimony.  Interlinked electronic databases of missing material and known forgeries are necessary.  In the case of auctions, there must be adequate time for material to be reviewed by institutions who suspect their property is on the block.  There is no magical solution and we live in an imperfect world, but we must try our best to do something meaningful.
 
I don't think anyone intends to neglect the collector, and I am glad you spoke out.
 
I have said too much on this subject, and apologize for so many posts.  But my responses are due to great concern and the desire to do something positive instead of engaging in negative dialogue and gossip.
 
Dorothy Sloan
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 4:15 AM
Subject: Re: [MapHist] Theft issues - deafened by the response

I am a collector and have been following the Smiley correspondence for obvious reasons.
 
What strikes me is that although dealers and librarians have waxed eloquently and at length, to the best of my recollection not once has the position, the possible reaction  and  the feelings of collectors been referred to or considered.
 X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2 X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Date: Thu, 08 Sep 2005 12:17:24 -0400 From: Jeremy Pool User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.5) Gecko/20031007 X-Accept-Language: en,pdf To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Subject: Re: [MapHist] Theft issues - deafened by the response X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.info X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.025 required=6.31 tests=[AWL=0.025] X-Spam-Level: I think that the idea of protecting library collections by developing a list of high-value maps in books is somewhat misguided. Ethically, there is no difference between the theft of an early edition of John Smith's map of New England, with a market value of perhaps $50,000 (as the knowlegeable and sophisticated Forbes Smiley is alleged to have done) and the theft of a map from `The General History of the Late War` with a market value of $200 or less (reported to be among the maps stolen by the unknowledgable, low-rent thief Gilbert Bland). Both acts leave the source volume badly damaged, violate the library's trust, the community's trust, and, in addition, are thoroughly illegal. Certainly a rarer, more commercially valuable, map will cost the library more, in money and effort, to replace. But in either case the librarian is being asked to do what surely must be among his/her least favorite activities: Spending time trying to fill holes in the collection made by thieves. Tony Campbell's goal of providing rare-book librarians with better tools for identifying at-risk books is hard to fault, other than to point out, as others on this list have done, that there are practical and political obstacles to developing these tools and getting them to be used. One tool that hasn't been mentioned is something that already exists in many libraries: An indication in the catalogue entry for a book as to whether it contains maps and/or plates. Just a glance at the online catalogue entry should often alert the librarian that the patron is being handed a book which contains material at risk for theft, and that this book should be given some extra attention, either during its use or on its return, to ensure that it hasn't been compromised. Jeremy Pool _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.info X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2 X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 09:23:17 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: [MapHist] Theft issues - deafened by the response From: "Barry Ruderman" To: maphist@geog.uu.nl User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.3a X-Mailer: SquirrelMail/1.4.3a X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at teamspirit.com X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.info X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.019 required=6.31 tests=[AWL=-1.019] X-Spam-Level: David, Early in the string of discussions regarding the map theft, I believe I spent several paragraphs on this topic. In summary, I expressed the concern that being the victim/unwitting purchaser of a stolen map would have the following negative effects: 1. Chill the enthusiasm of serious collectors. 2. Cast a cloud/taint over the trade and all rare material for the foreseeable future. 3. Undermine an important source of donor/volunteer resources for institutions. I believe the posting was about 6 weeks ago, in response to another of Tony Campbell's well written socratic emails. Barry Ruderman > I am a collector and have been following the Smiley correspondence for > obvious reasons. > > What strikes me is that although dealers and librarians have waxed > eloquently and at length, to the best of my recollection not once has the > position, > the possible reaction and the feelings of collectors been referred to > or > considered. > -- Barry Ruderman 1298 Prospect, Suite 2C La Jolla, CA 92037 (858) 551-8500 (858) 551-8593 (fax) blr@raremaps.com www.raremaps.com _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.info X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2 X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl From: "J. B. Post" To: Subject: [MapHist] Maps in books Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 12:46:50 -0400 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.info X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.731 required=6.31 tests=[AWL=-0.767, HTML_40_50=0.035, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001] X-Spam-Level:
   Other than noting them, maps included as insets on a printed page are integral to the printed volume and are there on the page.  Maps folded more than once and either bound in on a tab or placed in a pocket are a different matter.  My own view is such maps should be removed from the volume and stored flat.  Ideally, whatever classification/shelving system is used for the book should be used on the map, possible in a special section of the map cases.  This is rarely practical so the volume should be marked to indicate the new location of the maps and the maps should be marked to note from which volume they came.  Some would say this is like spitting in one's own beer when one has to leave it unattended, but treating maps this way may make them more secure. 
 
   A minor cartobibliographic problem is when more copies of the map are produced than copies of the bound volume and one has to distinguish between identical maps, one of which was sundered from a volume and one which was distributed singly. 
 
   Obviously the above does not apply to atlases where the maps are generally only singel folded, mounted on a tab, and bound into a volume.  Then watching the user is the only way to go. 
 
                    JBP
 
 X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2 X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl From: "tony campbell" To: "*MapHist" Subject: [MapHist] Theft - a round-up of the responses Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 21:04:05 +0100 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.info X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.163 required=6.31 tests=[AWL=-1.163] X-Spam-Level: Perhaps I might clarify my original proposal and, in the process, comment briefly on some of what has just been said. David Cobb is absolutely right that his or any other major library is unlikely to make resources available for the kind of preventative documentation I am talking about. But that is why I am proposing that such an exercise be funded corporately. Since it would be, to a considerable extent, for their benefit, the most obvious group to fund the work (or perhaps attract sponsorship for it) would be one of the organisations representing the rare book or research libraries, preferably at an international level. The catalyst for action might come from library directors, realising the damage done to the confidence of their donors (to echo just one of Barry Ruderman's negative effects). If they wanted to, they could deal with the stifling effect of departmental rivalries. My proposal is expressly designed to *avoid* each individual library having to undertake a similar, duplicated exercise. Although I was not suggesting that the map community should compile such a list, there is certainly an element of specialist research in this, beyond mere data-gathering. Barry's preparedness to make available a large map price list and Dorothy Sloan's offer to document the more likely target maps for parts of the US, introduce new possible ways of going about this. They also support the cooperative approach I am urging, where the efforts of a few would be made available to all. At least that is what I would hope to see with the bibliographical information, since, while this would of course provide a hit-list for a future thief, the libraries would (or should) have used the list to identify and protect those items beforehand. Assuming the charges stick, why did Smiley act as he did? Presumably because he was confident the maps would not be missed from their volumes. Would he have done the same had he known the volumes would be carefully checked when he handed them back? Barry's price list, on the other hand, would, as he said, need to be carefully restricted. *Any* map in a book might be taken to supplement a private collection, by a person unburdened with morality. This has certainly happened, and many volumes in old libraries show blanks where maps of little commercial value have been removed. But the professional thief, whether Smiley (as asserted now), Bellwood and Perry in Europe a few years ago, or Bland in the US before that, know about one 'value' only: market value. When the atlases of Ortelius and the like were hit in the European spate of thefts it was not any maps that went, just those that were the easiest to sell and had the highest commercial value. Jeremy Pool is absolutely right to point to the moral equivalence of removing from a book a high/low market value map. I am assuming that everybody on this list understands the real 'value' of an early map. However, the people we are talking about have no morals, only greed. But they can quantify their risk and presumably work to minimum market values. So, combining my original proposal with Barry's price index, it should be possible to think like a thief and identify those maps that are most 'vulnerable' to theft. Incidentally, saleability is a consideration here. A manuscript map can be less attractive to a thief than a relatively 'common, rare map', e.g. Ortelius, which can be untraceable to its source volume. The size of any documentation exercise might depend on what retail threshold was decided upon, $100, $1000, or whatever. The decision could be a strictly practical one. For those reasons, I still believe that the compilation of a universal listing of valuable and vulnerable [as defined above] maps in books could be feasible. Bibliographies already exist, often, by no coincidence, for precisely those areas that are the most in demand (i.e. that command the highest sums). And MapHist has already shown its public-spirited side in generous offers of help. No doubt, there could be more of those. The Smiley case is strongly focused on America but we need to think internationally, both in terms of library location and map coverage. The next attack might come in eastern Europe, for example. So, how might such a list happen? My specific proposal, posted on 15 August, < http://www.maphistory.info/smiley.html#list > remains, I think, broadly valid (with modifications in the light of this recent MapHist thread). With apologies for those whose points haven't been commented upon, and with thanks for many supportive messages (both on- and offlist). Tony Campbell ****************************************** t.campbell@ockendon.clara.co.uk 'Map History / History of Cartography: THE Gateway to the Subject' http://www.maphistory.info/ [part of the WWW-Virtual Library] ****************************************** -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.10.18/89 - Release Date: 02/09/2005 _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.info X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2 From: postmaster@lrc.gov.on.ca To: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl Subject: Undeliverable: [MapHist] Fw: H-Travel/American Philosophical Soci ety Library Map Guide Available online Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 19:15:31 -0400 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.72) X-MS-Embedded-Report: X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.322 required=6.3 tests=[AWL=-1.055, FORGED_MUA_IMS=2.37, NO_REAL_NAME=0.007] X-Spam-Level: * Your message To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Subject: [MapHist] Fw: H-Travel/American Philosophical Society Library Map Guide Available online Sent: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 19:28:51 -0400 did not reach the following recipient(s): LaPrairie, Rick (MNR) on Thu, 8 Sep 2005 19:15:39 -0400 A configuration error in the e-mail system caused the message to bounce between two servers or to be forwarded between two recipients. Contact your administrator. LRCPTORXMXMB001.lrc.ad.gov.on.ca 4.4.6 Message-ID: <000d01c5b4cd$123f4980$6401a8c0@jd62140dddbe34> From: jbpost@netreach.net Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Subject: [MapHist] Fw: H-Travel/American Philosophical Society Library Map Guide Available online Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 19:28:51 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.72) X-MS-Embedded-Report: return-path: x-mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 x-originalarrivaltime: 08 Sep 2005 23:16:54.0062 (UTC) FILETIME=[667AECE0:01C5B4CB] delivered-to: maphist@geog.uu.nl x-original-to: maphist@geog.uu.nl x-virus-scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl x-spam-status: No, hits=-0.691 required=6.31 tests=[AWL=-0.691] x-spam-level: list-info: http://www.maphist.info Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" ----- Original Message ----- From: "joyce post" To: Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 7:05 PM Subject: Fw: H-Travel/American Philosophical Society Library Map Guide Available online > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Bertram M. Gordon" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, September 07, 2005 6:24 PM > Subject: H-Travel/American Philosophical Society Library Map Guide Available > online > > > > Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2005 16:08:49 -0400 > > From: Joseph-James Ahern > > To: H-TRAVEL@h-net.msu.edu > > Reply-to: jjahern@amphilsoc.org > > Subject: American Philosophical Society Library Map Guide Available > > online > > > > *****Please Excuse Any Cross Posting******* > > > > The American Philosophical Society Library is pleased to announce that > > Realms of Gold: A Catalogue of Maps in the Library of the American > > Philosophical Society is now available online in its entirety at > > > > www.amphilsoc.org/library/mole/r/rog.htm. > > > > Divided into four main sections, Manuscript Maps, Printed Maps, Atlases, > > and Globes, this nearly 600 page volume is the definitive guide to all > > maps held at the APS. This new online version maintains author Murphy > > D. Smith's original arrangement - by collection for manuscript maps and > > geographically for printed maps - and is indexed for searching in the > > APS site search. > > > > To accompany the nearly 3,000 entries in this work, the APS scanned more > > than 100 maps and converted them to JPEG2000 format. By incorporating > > the JPEG2000 compression standard, this guide is able to display > > astonishing detail of maps that would otherwise be too large for even > > the fastest Internet connections. > > > > This project was made possible by a grant from the Gladys Krieble Delmas > > Foundation. > > > > Please address feedback to Richard Shrake at > > > > rshrake@amphilsoc.org . > > > > > > Joseph-James Ahern > > > > Assistant Manager of Technical Services and Programs > > > > American Philosophical Society Library > > > > 105 South Fifth Street > > > > Philadelphia, PA 19106 > > > > E-Mail: jjahern@amphilsoc.org > > > > Phone: 215-440-3443 > > > > web: www.amphilsoc.org > > > > _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.info X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2 X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl From: "J. B. Post" To: Subject: [MapHist] Fw: H-Travel/American Philosophical Society Library Map Guide Available online Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 19:28:51 -0400 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.info X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.691 required=6.31 tests=[AWL=-0.691] X-Spam-Level: ----- Original Message ----- From: "joyce post" To: Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 7:05 PM Subject: Fw: H-Travel/American Philosophical Society Library Map Guide Available online > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Bertram M. Gordon" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, September 07, 2005 6:24 PM > Subject: H-Travel/American Philosophical Society Library Map Guide Available > online > > > > Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2005 16:08:49 -0400 > > From: Joseph-James Ahern > > To: H-TRAVEL@h-net.msu.edu > > Reply-to: jjahern@amphilsoc.org > > Subject: American Philosophical Society Library Map Guide Available > > online > > > > *****Please Excuse Any Cross Posting******* > > > > The American Philosophical Society Library is pleased to announce that > > Realms of Gold: A Catalogue of Maps in the Library of the American > > Philosophical Society is now available online in its entirety at > > > > www.amphilsoc.org/library/mole/r/rog.htm. > > > > Divided into four main sections, Manuscript Maps, Printed Maps, Atlases, > > and Globes, this nearly 600 page volume is the definitive guide to all > > maps held at the APS. This new online version maintains author Murphy > > D. Smith's original arrangement - by collection for manuscript maps and > > geographically for printed maps - and is indexed for searching in the > > APS site search. > > > > To accompany the nearly 3,000 entries in this work, the APS scanned more > > than 100 maps and converted them to JPEG2000 format. By incorporating > > the JPEG2000 compression standard, this guide is able to display > > astonishing detail of maps that would otherwise be too large for even > > the fastest Internet connections. > > > > This project was made possible by a grant from the Gladys Krieble Delmas > > Foundation. > > > > Please address feedback to Richard Shrake at > > > > rshrake@amphilsoc.org . > > > > > > Joseph-James Ahern > > > > Assistant Manager of Technical Services and Programs > > > > American Philosophical Society Library > > > > 105 South Fifth Street > > > > Philadelphia, PA 19106 > > > > E-Mail: jjahern@amphilsoc.org > > > > Phone: 215-440-3443 > > > > web: www.amphilsoc.org > > > > _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.info X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2 X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl X-Sender: docktor@pop.earthlink.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Thu, 08 Sep 2005 20:50:49 -0400 To: maphist@geog.uu.nl From: "John W. Docktor" Subject: [MapHist] MapForum X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.info X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0 required=6.31 tests=[none] X-Spam-Level: The next issue of "MapForum" will soon be going to the printer. Please send me information about any cartographic meeting or exhibition which currently is NOT listed at www.docktor.com if you want it to appear in the "Diary of Events" in the next issue of "MapForum." I must have your information by Tuesday, September 13. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- John W. Docktor Phone: 772-466-8706 Cartography - Calendars of Events & Exhibitions: http://www.docktor.com/ Washington Map Society: http://www.washmap.org/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.info X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2 X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Date: Thu, 08 Sep 2005 21:07:23 -0400 From: "Overlee" Subject: Re: [MapHist] MapForum To: X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.info X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.805 required=6.31 tests=[AWL=0.806, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Level: John: Would it be in order to announce that Catalogue 54 of Overlee Farm Books will be available in October upon request to overlee@verizon.net? Thanks for any help you can give. All the best, Martin ----- Original Message ----- From: "John W. Docktor" To: Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 8:50 PM Subject: [MapHist] MapForum > The next issue of "MapForum" will soon be going to the printer. Please > send me information about any cartographic meeting or exhibition which > currently is NOT listed at www.docktor.com if you want it to appear in the > "Diary of Events" in the next issue of "MapForum." I must have your > information by Tuesday, September 13. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > John W. Docktor > Phone: 772-466-8706 > > Cartography - Calendars of Events & Exhibitions: http://www.docktor.com/ > Washington Map Society: http://www.washmap.org/ > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > _______________________________________________________________ > MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography > hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht. > The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of > the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of > Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for > the views of the author. > List Information: http://www.maphist.info _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.info X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2 X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.3.4 Date: Fri, 09 Sep 2005 09:18:29 +0200 To: maphist@geog.uu.nl From: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl (by way of List-owner MapHist ) Subject: Re: [MapHist] Theft issues - deafened by the response X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.info X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.058 required=6.31 tests=[AWL=-1.058] X-Spam-Level: This message had a taboo header, probably html-encoded. Soon these problems will hopefully be finished, since MapHist will move to a differtent listserv program. Later more about that. Peter. Date: Thu, 08 Sep 2005 10:31:21 -0500 From: Robert Karrow I guess I have a problem with the "top-down" approach that Tony has suggested -- experts get together, define the universe of "valuable maps in books," find out who owns those books, and then get the owners to do something about them (check them for loss, be more careful in their future use, etc.). While this would certainly help, and might well be the quickest way to uncover losses of the most valuable material (stuff Smiley might have been interested in) I can't help but think that it's starting at the wrong end. The success of Tony's proposal, after the long, extra-ordinary labor of volunteers, ultimately rests with the curators of rare book collections, who then must go to their shelves, find the specified books, and check for their integrity. As to determining the sources of Smiley's stock, a much more direct method is for rare book collections to determine if and when Smiley visited, what he looked at, and then carefully check those books. Most rare book collections have the data to do that and many have already done so, or are doing so now. As to a more general approach to the security of maps in books, would it not be more efficient for the curators of rare books simply to go to the shelves holding the books likely to contain "valuable" maps, take them off shelves one by one, putting ownership stamps on maps and prints not already marked, and looking for signs of removal? Armed with some bibliographies ("European Americana," for one) they could learn how many maps are supposed to be in a given book. The assumption is that these are rare book folks who may not be very interested in or knowledgeable about maps. This process would introduce them to many, many maps they didn't know they had, including many, many maps that probably wouldn't have been on the lists compiled by the volunteer cartobibliographers, but that might be equally vulnerable or equally valuable. At the end of their work, they could annotate the book somehow, indicating the number of maps currently present and their locations in the book, so that in future, librarians could easily check the volumes on their return from readers. At 09:44 AM 9/8/2005 -0400, you wrote: -----Original Message----- From: John Day Not to belabor the obvious, but if one wants to index or track maps=20 in books, isn't also necessary to do so with most any illustrations=20 in rare books? I think this ties to what David Cobb was saying, about the overwhelming nature of the task, and the difficulty in getting expert analysis to focus on all the potential problems with respect to evaluation of all the books, maps, illustrations, etc. You'd need a number of experts with different skills tackling this, and it is daunting. One could make the case that librarians-in-training (MIS, etc.) should be exposed to these issues in depth in their early training, but even with that, the logistics of the job are at issue. I don't think anyone says that nothing should be done, but putting together a workable method could take a while, and enhanced physical security (while maintaining access) may be an easier initial approach, assuming funding issues may be more manageable. Tony mentions that the costs of the security response may be less than eventual loss of material, but you still have to get the funding up-front to make the changes...and major libraries have a number of budgetary concerns here. Joel Kovarsky _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University=20 of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: <3D.htm>http://www.maphist.i= nfo Robert W. Karrow, Jr., Ph.D. Curator of Special Collections and Curator of Maps, Roger & Julie Baskes Department of Special Collections The Newberry Library 60 W. Walton Street Chicago, Illinois 60610-7324 Tel: 312-255-3554 FAX: 312-255-3646 E-Mail: KarrowR@newberry.org <3D.htm>www.newberry.org For a partial catalog of our cartographic holdings, see <3D.htm>www.biblioserver.com/newberry _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.info X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2 X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.3.4 Date: Fri, 09 Sep 2005 09:20:37 +0200 To: maphist@geog.uu.nl From: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl (by way of List-owner MapHist ) Subject: [MapHist] [Fwd: H-Travel/American Philosophical Society Library Map Guide Available X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.info X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.025 required=6.31 tests=[AWL=-1.025] X-Spam-Level: Non-member submission from ["Duane F. Marble" ] (Duane please change your subscription address into the address you send your messages from, Peter). Date: Thu, 08 Sep 2005 15:39:10 -0700 Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2005 16:08:49 -0400 From: Joseph-James Ahern To: H-TRAVEL@h-net.msu.edu Reply-to: jjahern@amphilsoc.org Subject: American Philosophical Society Library Map Guide Available online *****Please Excuse Any Cross Posting******* The American Philosophical Society Library is pleased to announce that Realms of Gold: A Catalogue of Maps in the Library of the American Philosophical Society is now available online in its entirety at www.amphilsoc.org/library/mole/r/rog.htm. Divided into four main sections, Manuscript Maps, Printed Maps, Atlases, and Globes, this nearly 600 page volume is the definitive guide to all maps held at the APS. This new online version maintains author Murphy D. Smith's original arrangement - by collection for manuscript maps and geographically for printed maps - and is indexed for searching in the APS site search. To accompany the nearly 3,000 entries in this work, the APS scanned more than 100 maps and converted them to JPEG2000 format. By incorporating the JPEG2000 compression standard, this guide is able to display astonishing detail of maps that would otherwise be too large for even the fastest Internet connections. This project was made possible by a grant from the Gladys Krieble Delmas Foundation. Please address feedback to Richard Shrake at rshrake@amphilsoc.org . Joseph-James Ahern Assistant Manager of Technical Services and Programs American Philosophical Society Library 105 South Fifth Street Philadelphia, PA 19106 E-Mail: jjahern@amphilsoc.org Phone: 215-440-3443 web: www.amphilsoc.org -- Dr. Duane F. Marble Email: marble.1@osu.edu 2226 Primrose Lane Telephone: (541) 902-8837 Florence, OR 97439 Cell: (541) 991-1730 _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.info X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2 X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Subject: RE: [MapHist] Cartifacts etc. Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 09:07:22 +0100 X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [MapHist] Cartifacts etc. Thread-Index: AcW0cUiZDzDmSTY0R4ywpszV4PIywwApA2RQ From: "Francis Herbert" To: X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.info X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.914 required=6.31 tests=[AWL=-1.153, HTML_80_90=0.146, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, HTML_TEXT_AFTER_BODY=0.061, HTML_TEXT_AFTER_HTML=0.031] X-Spam-Level:

Such things are still commonly sold, as with UK Hydrographic Office (Admiralty) charts, and obtainable from – e.g. – Stanfords in London.

 

Francis Herbert

f.herbert@rgs.org

 

 

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl [mailto:owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl] On Behalf Of john a w lock
Sent: 08 September 2005 13:33
To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
Subject: Re: [MapHist] Cartifacts etc.

 

One bizarre category I remember seeing back in the 1990s was notepads made up of what looked like failed Ordnance Survey maps - available as I recall in all sizes from A4 down. At present the London Metropolitan Archives is currently selling as 'wrapping paper' what looks to me suspiciously like failed scans of 16th century court records - I shall look out for the map equivalent!

 

 

 

 

----- Original Message -----

From: J. B. Post

Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 1:25 PM

Subject: [MapHist] Cartifacts etc.

 

   The current Bas Bleu catalog (website http://www.basbleu.com) has map neckties (New York, Chicago, Boston) listed for $39.99 each and map scarves (Rome, London, Paris, New York, San Francisco, Washington) listed for $65.00 each.  Also being sold are the boxed CITY WALKS for New York, Paris, London, & San Francisco ($14.95 each)and the books THE ISLAND AT THE CENTER OF THE WORLD ($14.95) and THE MAPMAKER'S WIFE ($13.00).  A map of US lighthouses ($10.95) and a global puzzle are also vended ($14.95). 

 

                 JBP

 

 X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2 X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl X-ME-UUID: 20050909090747827.C9E0C4800085@mwinf3107.me.freeserve.com From: "john a w lock" To: Subject: [MapHist] weighing I Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 10:08:59 +0100 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4927.1200 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.info X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.494 required=6.31 tests=[AWL=-0.494] X-Spam-Level: I pulled this off the internet... http://www.stanford.edu/dept/SUL/waiscool/mailing-lists/cdl/instances/2001/2 001-04-27.dst I've used the NAL Special Collections and have never seen this in action - the only place where I have seen it done at the point of delivery is the Essex Record Office but I don't get out much! My 10 minute web trawl only pulled up one other local authority. John A W Lock [extract starts] Date: 25 Apr 2001 From: Guy Baxter Subject: Security Ko de van Watering writes >Recently we had a case of theft of precious maps from books in our >rare book collection. This has caused curators and library staff to >start looking desperately for means of safeguarding the books in the >special collections reading room. > >Someone has suggested to start weighing the books before and after >(use). Is this a viable option and does anybody really employ this >system? I was told that the British Library uses such a system but I >have been unable to get any information on this. I still would >prefer checking the books carefully before and after use. The Museum Archives section of the National Art Library at the Victoria and Albert Museum has, for many years, used a reading room security system based on weighing documents on issue and return. We find that this system, although not 100% foolproof, suits our needs very well if used in conjunction with other security measures in the reading room. It deters theft and allows us to check documents quickly. We combine the weighing system with the following measures: only one file is issued to a reader at a time; the reading room is constantly supervised; readers are asked to leave coats and bags at the entrance and we check their notes/papers if there is any discrepancy in weight; readers must sign for each document they consult; readers must produce proof of identity. No system is entirely secure, and I am aware that library special collections have different needs from archives: the special collections of the National Art Library use a system based on continuous close invigilation. We also have the advantage of limited numbers of users. However, the system that we employ is as safe as any that I have encountered. I would be happy for any colleagues who have further enquiries to contact me off-list. Guy Baxter Archive of Art and Design Victoria and Albert Museum 23 Blythe Road London W14 0QX +44 20 7603 1514 Fax: +44 20 7602 0980 [extract ends] _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.info X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2 X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl From: "Roger Baskes" To: Cc: Subject: [MapHist] IMCoS, collectors and stolen maps Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 12:16:33 -0500 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.info X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.227 required=6.31 tests=[HTML_20_30=0.226, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001] X-Spam-Level:
Many of you have responded to David Gestetner's point yesterday about involvement of collectors in discussions about stolen maps and maps of which one ought to be suspicious.  I have offlist told Tony Campbell, David Cobb and Bob Karrow, who have each in one way or another raised this issue, that I strongly feel that this is not just a practical, legal and financial issue for collectors, but also a significant ethical issue.  And that I do intend to raise this from the podium in the IMCoS International Symposium next week in Denver.
 
A map which comes from a book with one or a few maps has almost certainly been "stolen" from the book at some point in time.   In that sense it is even different from a map from an atlas; as reprehensible as breaking atlases (including composite atlases!) is, it has occurred for generations, and at least the raped book is no longer around to scream silently.   Nor am I ignorant of the history of the theft of cultural artifacts; what porportion of the earliest books and manuscripts in our great libraries were themselves once stolen from monasteries and other libraries?   But at least some of these thefts are centuries old.
 
I would urge that we have a moral responsibility not to support a market in maps which are very likely to have been recently sliced out of books.  A map of North America worth $50,000 from an 18th century book may not be worth more than the book with the map still in it, although presumably not much less either.  Yet if you can buy the book instead you can be more comfortable about its provenance.  And I would guess that most collectors at that level are (or can or should become) quite knowledgeable about where the very few examples of these books are located.
 
It is not my intention to suggest that we shift the primary blame for map thefts from the thief to the collector.  But as Tony and Bob each put this eloquently, we are a community of people who love and respect maps and books and their history.   As amateurs, collectors are only in it for the pleasure.  All the more reason that we should accept our share of the responsibiilty for its integrity.
 
The first line of defense does have to be our libraries, and there have been many good suggestions for protecting our books with maps.  The best seem to me relate to the need for special collection librarians to know what is in their collections.  Any valuable map in a book should be identified and stamped indelibly on its reverse side.   The existence, even the importance, of the map should be part of the catalogue information.  When a book with a valuable map or plate is electronically paged, it would be ideal if the information were simultaneously to appear on the monitor of the librarian who is going to supervise security of the examination of the book by the library patron. 
 
Still, I hope that we collectors can be said to be doing our share to diminish the future attraction for thieves to butcher our cultural patrimony.  Dealers will themselves ask more questions of their sources if we collectors are going to insist upon that information.  Even more painfully, as Bob Karrow has urged, collectors who believe they may have bought something in this latest round of alleged thefts should be forthcoming in volunteering the information, if only to make it less likely to occur again, or as often.
 
Roger S Baskes
980 N Michigan Avenue
Suite 1380
Chicago, Illinois 60611 USA
phone 1-312-642-3737
fax 1-312-642-0937
roger@baskes.com
www.baskes.com
 
 
 
 
 
 X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2 X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Date: Fri, 09 Sep 2005 13:17:41 -0500 From: "Angie Cope, AGSL" User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.2 (Windows/20050317) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Subject: [MapHist] Colton's atlas 1858 help identify an engravings meaning X-Virus-Scanned: by clamav X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.52 on 129.89.7.52 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.info X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.165 required=6.31 tests=[AWL=-1.165] X-Spam-Level: Hello all, I'm hoping someone is familiar with Colton atlases. I'm wondering if the image found as a front plate of the 1868 "Colton's general atlas" has any allegorical or symbolic meaning. I've posted the image here: http://www.uwm.edu/~acope/index.html Thanks in advance for your comments and ideas. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ANGIE COPE American Geographical Society Library UW Milwaukee 2311 E. Hartford Avenue Milwaukee, Wisconsin 53201 http://www.uwm.edu/Libraries/AGSL/index.html Hours: M-F 8:00am-4:30pm acope@uwm.edu (414) 229-6282 (800) 558-8993 (US TOLL FREE) (414) 229-3624 (FAX) Map Librarian, MAPS-L Moderator http://www.uwm.edu/Libraries/AGSL/welcome_to_mapsl%20forum.html ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.info X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2 X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl From: "tony campbell" To: "*MapHist" Subject: [MapHist] re: Response to your plea Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 19:34:11 +0100 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.info X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.134 required=6.31 tests=[AWL=-1.134] X-Spam-Level: Bob Karrow wrote: "As to a more general approach to the security of maps in books, would it not be more efficient for the curators of rare books simply to go to the shelves holding the books likely to contain "valuable" maps, take them off shelves one by one, putting ownership stamps on maps and prints not already marked, and looking for signs of removal? ... This process would introduce them to many, many maps they didn't know they had, including many, many maps that probably wouldn't have been on the lists compiled by the volunteer cartobibliographers, but that might be equally vulnerable or equally valuable." Assuming that for each rare book librarian to go to their own shelves *is* considered the most effective way to proceed - and that is presumably for them to decide individually [some libraries are just too large for that] - could a shared list not result from that process? Or, if a common list had already been prepared and was generally available, could any additional information gathered in one library not be shared with others? While a fragmented, go-it-alone approach might well have political appeal within rare book libraries, I cannot see how it could possibly be as effective as a collaborative effort to produce a shared listing. As anybody who has put a toe into the cartobibliographical water knows, 'maps in books' present the greatest problems. Sure, no listing is going to be perfect, but with the appropriate expertise brought to bear, such a list should be good enough to keep ahead of the thief [where is he going to get additional information?] and, who knows, it might add to cartobibliographical knowledge as well. Tony Campbell ****************************************** t.campbell@ockendon.clara.co.uk 'Map History / History of Cartography: THE Gateway to the Subject' http://www.maphistory.info/ [part of the WWW-Virtual Library] ****************************************** -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.10.18/89 - Release Date: 02/09/2005 _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.info X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2 X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Date: Fri, 09 Sep 2005 12:37:22 -0700 From: Deborah Taylor-Pearce User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.7.11) Gecko/20050728 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Subject: Re: [MapHist] Theft - a round-up of the responses X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.info X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.016 required=6.31 tests=[AWL=-1.016] X-Spam-Level: Tony, > *Any* map in a book might be taken to > supplement a private collection, by a > person unburdened with morality. This > has certainly happened, and many > volumes in old libraries show blanks > where maps of little commercial value > have been removed. But the > professional thief, whether Smiley > (as asserted now), Bellwood and Perry > in Europe a few years ago, or Bland > in the US before that, know about one > 'value' only: market value. When the > atlases of Ortelius and the like were > hit in the European spate of thefts > it was not any maps that went, just > those that were the easiest to sell > and had the highest commercial value. > Jeremy Pool is absolutely right to > point to the moral equivalence of > removing from a book a high/low > market value map. I am assuming > that everybody on this list > understands the real 'value' of an > early map. However, the people we > are talking about have no morals, > only greed. But they can quantify > their risk and presumably work to > minimum market values. > > So, combining my original proposal > with Barry's price index, it should > be possible to think like a thief > and identify those maps that are most > 'vulnerable' to theft. Incidentally, > saleability is a consideration here. > A manuscript map can be less > attractive to a thief than a > relatively 'common, rare map', e.g. > Ortelius, which can be untraceable > to its source volume. The size of > any documentation exercise might > depend on what retail threshold was > decided upon, $100, $1000, or > whatever. The decision could be a > strictly practical one. I've lost track now of who said what thus far about relying on existing catalog descriptions, which often *do* include information about whether or not an old book contains maps. But with the above, you make a solid case, I think, for why such existing catalog descriptions are inadequate. For one thing, they don't always differentiate "folded" (larger, stand-alone) maps from smaller maps interspersed with text on a single page (as in the 4th ed. of _Purchas His Pilgrimage_, with its addition of 16 maps, mostly from Hondius, to illustrate Purchas' discussion of Africa, Asia, and the Middle East). I'm assuming that text pages (with maps on them) stolen from the 4th ed. of _Purchas His Pilgrimage_ would have little market value, because not easily "saleable" in their own right. But this could also hold for some "folded" maps as well. And most of us who are outsiders to your field would have no idea how to go about assigning market value to any of the maps in old books. (Indeed, I can't even help the occasional bookseller who contacts me about pricing some obscure title in their possession.) E.g., would the (rare) Ferrar map of Virginia of 1651 -- included in some copies of Edward Williams' _Virginia ... richly and truly valued_ -- be more or less saleable than a (lot less rare) 1653 edition of same? My hunch is that both printed copies deserve special protection, but it could well be that the less rare 1653 map needs even more vigilant protection -- a counterintuitive response for those of us who don't know any better. I guess what I'm trying to say is that I think *this* is your strongest ground for (non-turf-threatening ;-) cross-disciplinary conversation and collaboration with Rare Books librarians. You make a persuasive argument about the need for strategically combining specialist knowledges (she says, in her best "pomo"ese ;-), Deborah _____ Deborah Taylor-Pearce dtp@she-philosopher.com _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.info X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2 X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl From: "Tom Ikins" To: Subject: Re: [MapHist] Colton's atlas 1858 help identify an engravings meaning Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 17:26:44 -0400 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.info X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.769 required=6.31 tests=[AWL=-0.768, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Level: > I'm hoping someone is familiar with Colton atlases. I'm wondering if the > image found as a front plate of the 1868 "Colton's general atlas" has > any allegorical or symbolic meaning. In the foreground the pallette, book, hour-glass, and compass-box(?) would signify the necessesaries for map-making; art, recorded knowledge, measured time and direction. The left-most figure has her hand on the western U.S., perhaps indicating recent acquisitions. I don't see anything in particular that would specifically indicate "Liberty instructing the world" or such. A higher resolution scan might be more informative. Is there mention of the engraver? This might also be an image re-used by the publisher, not uncommon. Tom Ikins http://www.RomanMap.com The Roman Map of Britain _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.info X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2 X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl X-IronPort-AV: i="3.96,183,1122868800"; d="scan'208"; a="79969810:sNHT32735196" From: "Charles Burroughs" To: Subject: RE: [MapHist] Colton's atlas 1858 help identify an engravings meaning Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 18:05:34 -0400 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook CWS, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.info X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.453 required=6.31 tests=[AWL=-0.453] X-Spam-Level: Would "enlightenment of the female gender" on the heels/heals of our American War Between the States/War to Preserve the Union/Civil War be a form of "allegorical or symbolic meaning" projected by this plate? Whatever the meaning, it is obvious from the position of the 2nd person from the left, that she has absolutely no respect for the telescope (theodolite?) mounted on its tripod as she seems to be supporting herself on same. Charles @ Stepladder -----Original Message----- From: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl [mailto:owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl]On Behalf Of Angie Cope, AGSL Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 2:18 PM To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Subject: [MapHist] Colton's atlas 1858 help identify an engravings meaning Hello all, I'm hoping someone is familiar with Colton atlases. I'm wondering if the image found as a front plate of the 1868 "Colton's general atlas" has any allegorical or symbolic meaning. I've posted the image here: http://www.uwm.edu/~acope/index.html Thanks in advance for your comments and ideas. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ANGIE COPE American Geographical Society Library UW Milwaukee 2311 E. Hartford Avenue Milwaukee, Wisconsin 53201 http://www.uwm.edu/Libraries/AGSL/index.html Hours: M-F 8:00am-4:30pm acope@uwm.edu (414) 229-6282 (800) 558-8993 (US TOLL FREE) (414) 229-3624 (FAX) Map Librarian, MAPS-L Moderator http://www.uwm.edu/Libraries/AGSL/welcome_to_mapsl%20forum.html ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.info _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.info X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2 X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl X-EM-Version: 5, 0, 0, 0 X-EM-Registration: #3003520714B31D032830 X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 5.0.7.9 (Windows) From: "Judith Tyner" To: maphist@geog.uu.nl, "Angie Cope, AGSL" Subject: RE: [MapHist] Colton's atlas 1858 help identify an engravings meaning Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 15:53:15 -0700 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.info X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.511 required=6.31 tests=[AWL=-0.511] X-Spam-Level: I don't know about the allegorical or symbolic meaning, but I find it interesting in that in the early 19th century a transition was being made in women's education, especially geography. This transition was from the "ornamental branches" or "accomplishments to more academic subjects. It was also the period of the rise of female academies and geography was one of the first sciences taught. You might find Kim Tolley's work on women's science education of interest. This vignette would seem to show women educated in geography. Judith Tyner > [Original Message] > From: Angie Cope, AGSL > To: > Date: 9/9/2005 11:17:41 AM > Subject: [MapHist] Colton's atlas 1858 help identify an engravings meaning > > Hello all, > > I'm hoping someone is familiar with Colton atlases. I'm wondering if the > image found as a front plate of the 1868 "Colton's general atlas" has > any allegorical or symbolic meaning. > > I've posted the image here: > http://www.uwm.edu/~acope/index.html > > Thanks in advance for your comments and ideas. > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > ANGIE COPE > American Geographical Society Library > UW Milwaukee > 2311 E. Hartford Avenue > Milwaukee, Wisconsin 53201 > > http://www.uwm.edu/Libraries/AGSL/index.html > Hours: M-F 8:00am-4:30pm > acope@uwm.edu > (414) 229-6282 > (800) 558-8993 (US TOLL FREE) > (414) 229-3624 (FAX) > > Map Librarian, MAPS-L Moderator > http://www.uwm.edu/Libraries/AGSL/welcome_to_mapsl%20forum.html > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > _______________________________________________________________ > MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography > hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht. > The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of > the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of > Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for > the views of the author. > List Information: http://www.maphist.info --- Judith Tyner --- jztyner@earthlink.net "I try to take one day at a time, but sometimes several days attack me at once"--Ashleigh Brilliant _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.info X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2 X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Date: Fri, 09 Sep 2005 14:59:54 -0800 From: Dee Longenbaugh Subject: [MapHist] Re: Southern map, book archives To: maphist@geog.uu.nl X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.733) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.info X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.168 required=6.31 tests=[AWL=-1.167, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Level: There have been several inquiries on this, so happy to send along from an archivist friend: >> Information about archivists and archives affected by Hurricane >> Katrina can be found on the Society of American Archivists (SAA) >> web site. >> >> http://www.archivists.org/ >> Society of American Archivists Dee Longenbaugh The Observatory, ABAA www.observatorybooks.com deelong@alaska.com 907/586-9676 200 North Franklin Street Juneau, Alaska, 99801 Since 1977 The bridge of life is sometimes found in the rainbow _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.info X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2 X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Date: Fri, 09 Sep 2005 20:38:46 -0500 From: "Matthew H. Edney" Subject: Re: [MapHist] Colton's atlas 1858 help identify an engravings meaning To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Organization: University of Wisconsin X-Accept-Language: en-us, en User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (Windows/20041206) X-Spam-PmxInfo: Server=avs-7, Version=5.0.3.165339, Antispam-Engine: 2.1.0.0, Antispam-Data: 2005.9.9.35, SenderIP=69.11.211.213 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.info X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0 required=6.31 tests=[none] X-Spam-Level: Angie: The women are likely representations -- in traditional allegorical tradition -- of abstract notions. They might be the four(?) muses, or modern equivalents (Industry, Agriculture, Science, etc.). The question is, what are they holding that would identify the concepts they represent? I suggest this, rather than a direct connection to the increasing participation of women in geographical education, for two primary reasons: a) the pseudo-classical dress of the women; b) the fact that they are all adult and while some didactic moment is being enacted, this image is quite different from the kinds of imagery already common by the 1850s of school-mistresses teaching children. Hope this helps. You might find some help from historians of 19th-century U.S. art. Best, Matthew Matthew H. Edney Director, History of Cartography Project Department of Geography, 470 Science Hall University of Wisconsin 550 N. Park St., Madison, WI 53706-1491, USA (608) 263-3992, -0762 (fax) / edney@wisc.edu [ Associate Professor and OML Faculty Scholar ] [ University of Southern Maine ] Angie Cope, AGSL wrote: > Hello all, > > I'm hoping someone is familiar with Colton atlases. I'm wondering if > the image found as a front plate of the 1868 "Colton's general atlas" > has any allegorical or symbolic meaning. > > I've posted the image here: > http://www.uwm.edu/~acope/index.html > > Thanks in advance for your comments and ideas. > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > ANGIE COPE > American Geographical Society Library > UW Milwaukee > 2311 E. Hartford Avenue > Milwaukee, Wisconsin 53201 > > http://www.uwm.edu/Libraries/AGSL/index.html > Hours: M-F 8:00am-4:30pm > acope@uwm.edu > (414) 229-6282 > (800) 558-8993 (US TOLL FREE) > (414) 229-3624 (FAX) > > Map Librarian, MAPS-L Moderator > http://www.uwm.edu/Libraries/AGSL/welcome_to_mapsl%20forum.html > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > _______________________________________________________________ > MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography > hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht. > The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of > the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of > Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for > the views of the author. > List Information: http://www.maphist.info _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.info X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2 X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Date: Fri, 09 Sep 2005 22:20:22 -0700 From: Deborah Taylor-Pearce User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.7.11) Gecko/20050728 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Subject: Re: [MapHist] re: Response to your plea X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.info X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.982 required=6.31 tests=[AWL=-0.982] X-Spam-Level: Tony, > While a fragmented, go-it-alone > approach might well have political > appeal within rare book libraries, I > cannot see how it could possibly be > as effective as a collaborative > effort to produce a shared listing. > As anybody who has put a toe into > the cartobibliographical water knows, > 'maps in books' present the greatest > problems. Sure, no listing is going > to be perfect, but with the > appropriate expertise brought to > bear, such a list should be good > enough to keep ahead of the thief > [where is he going to get additional > information?] and, who knows, it > might add to cartobibliographical > knowledge as well. My own experience with early maps is limited to what I find in books, and I know nothing at all about the map trade or the organizational dynamics of Rare Maps and Rare Books departments. Hence, I don't know what (if any) information generated by and for a multidisciplinary collective would have proprietary and/or privacy concerns attached to it (and one thing I do know is that when knowledge-sharing schemes fail, it's always because of what we pomo-types call "knowledge politics"). So this has to be taken into account in the design of any successful information-sharing system. That said, I can't help but wonder if it would be possible to generate some sort of MapHisters' version of Wikipedia (Wikicartobibliography ?) -- an evolving knowledge base that everyone with relevant specialized knowledge can contribute to, as well as search. The "wiki" model comes with built-in peer review, while avoiding pernicious systems of privilege that too often marginalize important, but less authoritative, voices. While not perfect, it does have the advantage of being more inclusive than other models ... and self-sustaining, too. Thieves can, of course, learn from it, but so will the main stakeholders. And on balance, I think a true information commons works to the benefit of the group over the individual, no matter how unscrupulous or self-serving that individual may be. Deborah _____ Deborah Taylor-Pearce dtp@she-philosopher.com _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.info X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2 X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.3.4 Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2005 08:11:33 +0200 To: maphist@geog.uu.nl From: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl (by way of List-owner MapHist ) Subject: [MapHist] RE: IMCoS, collectors and stolen maps X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.info X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.886 required=6.31 tests=[AWL=-0.886] X-Spam-Level: Message with something illegal in the header. Peter From: "jeffrey katz" As an amateur collector, I agree wholeheartedly with Roger Baske's note and applaud his bringing it up prominently at the Denver meeting ( which unfortunately I will not be able to attend). Jeffrey Katz 3019 Ordway St. NW Washingtron, D.C. 2008 jaybee_8@hotmail.com >Many of you have responded to David Gestetner's point yesterday about involvement of collectors in discussions about stolen maps and maps of which one ought to be suspicious. I have offlist told Tony Campbell, David Cobb and Bob Karrow, who have each in one way or another raised this issue, that I strongly feel that this is not just a practical, legal and financial issue for collectors, but also a significant ethical issue. And that I do intend to raise this from the podium in the IMCoS International Symposium next week in Denver. ... Peter van der Krogt List-owner MapHist List-info: http://www.maphist.nl _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.info X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2 X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.3.4 Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2005 08:13:20 +0200 To: maphist@geog.uu.nl From: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl (by way of List-owner MapHist ) Subject: Re: [MapHist] IMCoS, collectors and stolen maps X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.info X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.911 required=6.31 tests=[AWL=-0.911] X-Spam-Level: Non-member submission from ["Dr. Paul van den Brink" ] (Paul - je hebt iets in je adres veranderd waardoor het niet meer overeenkomt met het ingeschreven adres. Peter) Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 23:18:23 +0200 (CEST) L.s. From my own experience at the National Library in The Hague I know that Americana, Asiatica and "Australina" are most vulnerable. Fortunately we have beautifull book-bibliographies already to our disposal, so it is easy to select the books and the maps we want to protect. As a member of http://www.rarebooks.fr, an interesting commercial website, I have some of these bibliographies available on-line. Within a minute I know what map is in what book and where I can find them. When searching for instance Sabin (one of the greatest bibliographies ever produced) I get within a few seconds more than 10.000 hits for cartographical materials in seperate books and magazines and instantly the American Libraries where to find them. And what to say about Harrisse who lists in his "Bibliotheca Americana Vetustissima" 304 entries relating to America published between the years 1492 and 1551 in exhaustive detail, with thorough annotations and more that 150 references to (very) rare maps. Unfortunately we have to select immediately, for thiefs have these same bibliographical materials with all there opportunities available. By using the KVK-database they know instantly the whereabouts of these books/maps in especially European libraries. While most Americana are post-1800, therefore not "old" and only stored in general depots it is very easy to apply for them. From several Dutch libraries I know that the name of the lender is only registered for the time he possesses the book. After that the name is erased "for privacy-reasons" So, in short, a great idea to come up with initiatives to protect our common cartographical heritage, but please do forget what we already gathered. In saying goodbye to the National Library I prepared and almost completed a bibliography of all maps in Dutch books (available in the library) before 1800. I choose to go to the shelfs, checked every book, and registered all the maps I found. Hopefully I will be able to complete the book in due time and as part of our Explokart series. For those of you who however that do not bother to use a still imperfect and incomplete 3 volume bibliography (800 titles, 727 pages) I am willing to provide a copy (20 Euro's) for registering and protecting your Dutch books Paul van den Brink Dr. Paul van den Brink University of Utrecht Faculty of Geosciences Explokart Research Team The Netherlands _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.info X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2 X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.3.4 Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2005 08:15:53 +0200 To: maphist@geog.uu.nl From: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl (by way of List-owner MapHist ) Subject: [MapHist] Re: IMCoS, collectors and stolen maps X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.info X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.863 required=6.31 tests=[AWL=-0.863] X-Spam-Level: Message html encoded and became over 20,000 characters. Please send your MapHist messages as plain text only. Peter. From: Strebe@aol.com Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 18:47:34 EDT (JMr. Baskes & Others of Like Mind,(B (JImpugning the morality of those who legally collect maps will not help (B (Jinstitutions solve their map theft problems. That's a crusade doomed to failure and (B (Jresentment. While I profoundly love and respect old maps, they're not sacred, (B (Jmystical artifacts that society, or I, want to see granted the status of (B (Jsomething other than property. Your need to worship them does not extend to my (B (Jcollection. I fear your entrancement with maps has magnified their importance in (B (Jyour mind beyond reason. I'm sorry, but next someone in love with vintage (B (Jboard games will be launching a moral and legislative crusade to stop me from (B (Jthrowing out that old Monopoly set that's missing crucial pieces. I won't have (B (Jthat.(B (JI would never break up a whole book that has come into my possession. While I (B (Jmay question the civility and refinement of someone who does, I would not (B (Jquestion 'his' morality. Books are inanimate objects. You cannot harm their (B (Jinterests. They don't have any. Harming your sensibilities is not illegal and not (B (Jimmoral and never should be. It's not a moral question. Period.(B (JHint: using words like "stealing" and "rape" to describe legal activities of (B (Jpeople toward their own property, and anthropomorphizing the book by (B (Jdescribing its "silent screams" is not a way to convince anyone. It may draw applause (B (Jfrom the choir, but it solidly confirms in everyone else's minds that you're (B (Jtaking your own advocacy just a little too seriously. And worse, it trivializes (B (Jreal, awful crimes, as well as the problems facing libraries.(B (JMost books can be cannibalized without harming historical or cultural values. (B (JThere are many copies of them in public institutions. The loss of those in (B (Jprivate hands does not harm academic interests. Furthermore the phenomenon (B (Jnaturally limits itself: when a book or atlas becomes sufficiently rare, it (B (Jachieves more value whole than broken, and so does not get broken up. These days no (B (Jbook owner breaks up a book so rare its loss harms the research of history. You (B (Jhave the market to thank for that: two hundred years ago historically (B (Jvaluable books were mutilated and discarded all the time precisely because there was (B (Jno market.(B (JYou speak of books as if there are only two states: whole or deliberately (B (Jbroken. Reality is more complicated. Hundreds of years of handling and the (B (Jelements are not kind to books. I assume most atlases and books broken up these days (B (Jwere already in an incomplete or damaged state; at least, I'm entirely (B (Jcertain many of my own maps came from such volumes. It's common to see many plates (B (Jfrom the same book offered by a dealer, and when I've inquiried whether certain (B (Jof the sibling plates are also available, I'm often told the volume was (B (Jfragmentary. When they're not even rare to start with and many of the books they (B (Jcome from have been falling apart for ages, it's hard to see the point in (B (Jpromoting a mystical morality condemning the legal collecting maps as any help to (B (Jlibraries.(B (JExtremely valuable maps are generally attended with documents of provenance. (B (JI really don't understand someone who pays $100,000 for a map but doesn't know (B (Jwhere it came from. Maybe that should be illegal; I don't know. Is it (B (Jimmoral? Debatable. Maybe it's just stupid. But that isn't where most of the maps you (B (Jseem to be concerned about are appraised. The bulk of the market is under (B (J$10,000, and such maps are not rare despite their value.(B (JAnd, finally, the elitist comment that amateurs are in it "purely for the (B (Jpleasure" does not endear your cause either. Some large fraction of those (B (Jamateurs have strong interests in the historical and cultural importance of the (B (Jregions and events their maps depict, and they contribute to the body of research (B (Jon map history. Furthermore spectacular private collections often find their (B (Jway into libraries by way of donation. Pretty immoral, that.(B (JI suggest we stick with the problems faced by libraries. I would like to help (B (Jin any way reasonable. Reasonable does not include affording cultural relic (B (Jstatus to maps that, while valuable in the market, by and large are not (B (Jdangerously rare; nor does it include foisting guilt upon those who, for love of (B (Jtheir beauty and history, legally and ethically collect them.(B (JRegards,(B (Jdaan Strebe(B (JIn a message dated 9/9/2005 10:19:19 AM $BB@J?MN2F;~4V(J, roger@baskes.com writes:(B (J> Many of you have responded to David Gestetner's point yesterday about (B (J> involvement of collectors in discussions about stolen maps and maps of which one (B (J> ought to be suspicious. I have offlist told Tony Campbell, David Cobb and Bob (B (J> Karrow, who have each in one way or another raised this issue, that I (B (J> strongly feel that this is not just a practical, legal and financial issue for (B (J> collectors, but also a significant ethical issue. And that I do intend to raise (B (J> this from the podium in the IMCoS International Symposium next week in (B (J> Denver.(B .... _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.info X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2 X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.3.4 Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2005 08:21:20 +0200 To: maphist@geog.uu.nl From: List-owner MapHist Subject: [MapHist] List-owner on vacation X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.info X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.233 required=6.31 tests=[AWL=-1.233] X-Spam-Level: Dear all I will be on vacation for a week without e-mail! If you send a message to MapHist and that does not appear, it is bounced to me and I have to redirect it manually to the list, just as I did with the last three messages. Before sending, check if the address you send it from matches EXACTLY the address you are s u b scribed with, if it is html-encoded, if it is less than 20,000 characters etc. Otherwise, just wait a week and I will redirect it to the list. Peter Peter van der Krogt List-owner MapHist List-info: http://www.maphist.nl _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.info X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2 X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl From: "Lutz Walter" To: Subject: [MapHist] RE: IMCoS, collectors and stolen maps Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2005 17:53:16 +0900 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.info X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.022 required=6.31 tests=[HTML_30_40=0.021, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001] X-Spam-Level:
Roger, Tony and others,
 
To my feeling, your proposals are all very valid, but can they be realistically put into effect, given the limitations of funds, resources, and human integrity?
 
Would it not be better to make all pre-1900 books including atlases available only upon application with full indentification of the applicant, and only in reading rooms, where each reading place is monitored by a surveillance camera? If then all readers are warned by a leaflet in signal colour that their activity in the reading room is recorded, and that that record is stored electronically for an unspecified period, it would hopefully raise the risk awarenesss of potential thieves to a degree were they turn their criminal energies to other preys than our beloved treasures. And were that is not the case, it would greatly enhance the likeliness of detecting theft attempts (if somebody actually watches the screens real time), or at least, it would facilitate catching thieves and prove their criminal activity.
 
Surveillance cameras are widely used whereever valuable material has to be protected, why not in reading rooms?
 
I have not read each of the many entires to this discussion. Please forgive me, if I have repeated something which others have already proposed.
 
Lutz Walter, Tokyo
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, September 10, 2005 3:11 PM
Subject: [MapHist] RE: IMCoS, collectors and stolen maps

Message with something illegal in the header. Peter

From: "jeffrey katz" <jaybee_8@hotmail.com>


As an amateur collector, I agree wholeheartedly with Roger Baske's
note and applaud his bringing it up prominently at the Denver meeting
( which unfortunately I will not be able to attend).




Jeffrey Katz
3019 Ordway St. NW
Washingtron, D.C. 2008


jaybee_8@hotmail.com
 >Many of you have responded to David Gestetner's point yesterday
about involvement of collectors in discussions about stolen maps and
maps of which one ought to be suspicious.  I have offlist told Tony
Campbell, David Cobb and Bob Karrow, who have each in one way or
another raised this issue, that I strongly feel that this is not just
a practical, legal and financial issue for collectors, but also a
significant ethical issue.  And that I do intend to raise this from
the podium in the IMCoS International Symposium next week in Denver.
...


Peter van der Krogt
List-owner MapHist

List-info: http://www.maphist.nl

_______________________________________________________________
MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography
hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht.
The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of
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Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for
the views of the author.
List Information: http://www.maphist.info
 X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2 X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl From: "tony campbell" To: "*MapHist" Subject: [MapHist] Thefts: the international dimension Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2005 10:31:50 +0100 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.info X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.106 required=6.31 tests=[AWL=-1.106] X-Spam-Level: I am delighted that, with Paul van den Brink's contribution to this discussion, we have added an international dimension. The Forbes Smiley case has been, almost entirely (or apparently so) of direct concern to the US members. Not surprisingly, those directly or potentially affected are concerned with the immediate, practical need to determine what was stolen and what action has now to be taken to deal with reparation and restitution issues. But, put into its historical context, this is just one (albeit dramatic) episode in a continuous process. And there are far more maps in books vulnerable to theft in European libraries. I do hope that our European colleagues have been following this discussion, which at times has seemed to be an exclusively Anglo-American affair. The debate I have tried to stimulate this time has been intentionally (by me) and relentlessly focused on the prevention of theft, by highlighting the institutions' achilles heel, namely lack of knowledge of much of what they hold. Following from the discussion three years ago arising out of the European thefts (some of which material, of course, ended up in the US) I offered an opinion piece about the aftermath of theft, 'How should we respond to early map thefts?' < http://www.maphistory.info/response.html >. That talked about the need for documentation and cooperation, via the sharing of information about what had been stolen, the 'full disclosure' policy. It also emphasised the requirement for dealers and auctions to exercise 'due diligence' when taking in material - something that Roger Baske is now urging for collectors as well. That 2002 piece, which seems to me to remain fully relevant, touches on some of the issues which Roger has raised. Again, I suggested a centralised, web-based solution in the form of a database of stolen maps. For various reasons ("as usual, you are being naively optimistic") nothing has happened. However nothing ever does happen unless you push hard enough. Tony Campbell ****************************************** t.campbell@ockendon.clara.co.uk 'Map History / History of Cartography: THE Gateway to the Subject' http://www.maphistory.info/ [part of the WWW-Virtual Library] ****************************************** -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.10.21/96 - Release Date: 10/09/2005 _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.info X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2 X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=LjhiOELVjBlIy2VtlJI4sSKPsCslo5i5elo8oLDIZ7CxBbveIPnlwYqArYIkrSrf; h=Received:Message-ID:From:To:References:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Priority:X-MSMail-Priority:X-Mailer:X-MimeOLE:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; From: "Dorothy Sloan" To: Subject: Re: [MapHist] IMCoS, collectors and stolen maps Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2005 07:48:39 -0500 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-ELNK-Trace: f33403415f50180b84b095f4ad0a658b3394c2b657dba48e74bf435c0eb9d478fed25d3098752d29dacb755c495a70a128f6fed54482b6a2350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 67.142.83.101 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.info X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.075 required=6.31 tests=[AWL=-1.071, URIBL_SBL=0.996] X-Spam-Level: <> There are other similar sources, though rarebooks.info is to be preferred for bibliographical work since it has scans from the actual bibliographies. Americana Exchange has bibliographical and price information. There is the well-known CD of Antique Map Price Records begun by David Jolly in 1983 and continued by Jeremy Pool www.MapRecord.com. Also, Kathy Leab's compiled American Book Prices Current is an essential tool for anyone seeking information on values of rare books: http://www.bookpricescurrent.com/ Dorothy Sloan www.dsloan.com _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.info X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2 X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition; b=PNCG7Zyrj6yltq0YeLxHtaGl4OvQ/Ur6s4898fKnFQg7ZnA+coVyOTn47TydMP89D/Ma5xPHOIAwrWeWBF/j+iJlVT74NmzW4EYPa72KcyCjka/xmbWeViEQwOFrW0SoSh/XfK5YpruVj2rAv4TL5p0PtNNNwXf11nrjECs1WFQ= Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2005 08:59:47 -0400 From: Jonathan Crowe To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Subject: [MapHist] Forbes Smiley affair news coverage: LA Times X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.info X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.021 required=6.31 tests=[AWL=-0.045, RCVD_BY_IP=0.067, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Level: From today's Los Angeles Times; clear your cookies if the site asks you to register before reading the article: "Alleged Thefts Disquieting for Libraries" by Elizabeth Mehren, Times Staff Writer http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-maps10sep10,1,4843121,full.story?coll=la-headlines-nation&ctrack=1&cset=true (The above address should be on one line; you may have to reconstruct it manually if your e-mail reader breaks it in two and only makes the first part clickable.) Jonathan Crowe The Map Room http://www.mcwetboy.net/maproom/ _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.info X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2 X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl X-Sender: docktor@pop.earthlink.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2005 20:45:17 -0400 To: maphist@geog.uu.nl From: "John W. Docktor" Subject: Re: [MapHist] Thefts: the international dimension X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.info X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0 required=6.31 tests=[none] X-Spam-Level: I have been reading the messages on this topic with a large amount of interest, and I would like to give my experience in this matter. I am a collector who has been able to visit many cartographic libraries throughout the world, and I have been able to examine their rare maps and atlases. I have found security to range from almost non-existent to excellent. The best security in my mind is in those libraries which have lockers in the entrance foyer. I was informed that I could take nothing into the library except a pencil, 3-4 sheets of note paper, and a laptop computer. No bags, no pocketbooks, no coats. Sport jackets or suit jackets had to be removed. Some libraries allowed me to take a camera into the reading room. However, I was only allowed to bring in the camera which was on a strap around my neck - no camera bag. On exiting the library, my 3-4 sheets of note paper and laptop computer were examined by security. I strongly suggest that libraries not allow anything inside the reading rooms except for a pencil, a few sheets of note paper, laptop computer, and perhaps a camera. Libraries will have to spend money in order to construct adequate locker space for the users. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- John W. Docktor Phone: 772-466-8706 Cartography - Calendars of Events & Exhibitions: http://www.docktor.com/ Washington Map Society: http://www.washmap.org/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.info X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2 X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2005 17:11:21 -0800 From: Dee Longenbaugh Subject: Re: [MapHist] Thefts: the international dimension To: maphist@geog.uu.nl X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.733) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.info X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.12 required=6.31 tests=[AWL=-1.119, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Level: This has been a most interesting discussion, but I must point out Smiley was carrying not only an Exacto blade but a briefcase when arrested. I agree wholeheartedly with John Docktor as to the simple precautions that I would expect deter most, if not all, would-be thieves. The British Library is an excellent example - they provide lockers for coats, purses, and bags. Pencils only allowed in the library and a check of notes, etc. made when leaving. I can't imagine that more than a few people using libraries of any sort have a felonious intent. It would be horrific if that handful should deny researchers from enjoying the purpose of libraries - to share knowledge. Dee Longenbaugh On Sep 10, 2005, at 4:45 PM, John W. Docktor wrote: > I have been reading the messages on this topic with a large amount > of interest, and I would like to give my experience in this matter. > I am a collector who has been able to visit many cartographic > libraries throughout the world, and I have been able to examine > their rare maps and atlases. I have found security to range from > almost non-existent to excellent. The best security in my mind is > in those libraries which have lockers in the entrance foyer. I was > informed that I could take nothing into the library except a > pencil, 3-4 sheets of note paper, and a laptop computer. No bags, > no pocketbooks, no coats. Sport jackets or suit jackets had to be > removed. Some libraries allowed me to take a camera into the > reading room. However, I was only allowed to bring in the camera > which was on a strap around my neck - no camera bag. On exiting the > library, my 3-4 sheets of note paper and laptop computer were > examined by security. > > I strongly suggest that libraries not allow anything inside the > reading rooms except for a pencil, a few sheets of note paper, > laptop computer, and perhaps a camera. Libraries will have to spend > money in order to construct adequate locker space for the users. > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > --------------------------- > John W. Docktor > Phone: 772-466-8706 > Dee Longenbaugh The Observatory, ABAA www.observatorybooks.com deelong@alaska.com 907/586-9676 200 North Franklin Street Juneau, Alaska, 99801 Since 1977 The bridge of life is sometimes found in the rainbow _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.info X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2 X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl X-IronPort-AV: i="3.97,96,1125892800"; d="scan'208,217"; a="83913541:sNHT41466224" X-Sender: sanderva@pop.erols.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.0.1.1 Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2005 23:16:35 -0400 To: From: Tom Sander Subject: [MapHist] "The Portolan" (Washington Map Society) - Issue 63 - DU on Late-Ming China; SUAREZ on mapping the Pacific; KOVARSKY on building a library of map books; JOHNSON on maps and music; PERCIVAL on the future of the WMS; VOGEL on the Voorhees Lectures; STANLEY on Eleanor Abbey; WOLF on weekend map seminars; RHODES on John Garver; three book reviews; and more. X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.info X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.599 required=6.31 tests=[AWL=-0.885, HTML_10_20=0.246, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_QP_LONG_LINE=0.039] X-Spam-Level:  
"The Portolan" has been published since 1984 and welcomes you to investigate and try this thrice-yearly journal with articles on maps, the history of cartography, and exploration. It is the only journal of its kind in the Americas.   Below is information on the issue just published.  See the end of this message for the link to the contents list of all back issues and an index to those issues.  The focus of the society and the journal is not solely Washington.  There is something for YOU in this journal.
 
"THE PORTOLAN": JOURNAL OF THE WASHINGTON MAP SOCIETY
ISSUE 63 (Fall 2005)
--------------------------------------------------------------
Issue 63 (Fall 2005), consisting of 80 pages, was published in August 2005 and has been sent to all subscribers and members in good standing of the Washington Map Society. Copies are available for purchase.
 
YONGTAO DU’s article on Merchant Geography in Late-Ming China received honorable mention in the 2003 competition for the Walter W. Ristow Prize for Cartographic History and Map Librarianship.  Dealer and author TOM SUAREZ describes the early mapping of the Pacific.   JOEL KOVARSKY provides an annotated bibliography of reference books that should be in any collector’s library, particularly those just getting started in the field of maps; there is a link to this article at the bottom of the WMS home page (see below).  BERT JOHNSON
reflects on map references in a piece of 15th century music.  WMS Past-President BRON PERCIVAL looks at where the Washington Map Society is today and what might be necessary as it moves into its second quarter-century.  STEVE VOGEL summarizes the first two Voorhees Lectures at the Library of Virginia.  BILL STANLEY reports on a charter member of the WMS who, in her 80’s, still has a love for maps.  BOB RHODES comments on the life of John Garver, former WMS President and National Geographic official. Three books are reviewed.  And there is more. "The Portolan" is published three times per year; issue 64 is due for release in late December 2005.
 
----------------------------------------------------------------
CONTENTS OF ISSUE 63 -  Fall 2005
 
ARTICLES
“Contesting Spatial Order: Merchant Geography in Late-Ming China”, by Yongtao Du, (2003 Ristow Competition Honorable Mention)
“Early Mapping of the Pacific”, by Thomas Suarez
“An Annotated Bibliography of Reference Books for the Beginning Antiquarian Map Collector” by Joel Kovarsky
“Missa de la Mapa Mundi - A Cartophonic Mystery”, by Bert Johnson
           
RECENT PUBLICATIONS
A regular feature in 'The Portolan,' this is a bibliographic listing of articles and books appearing worldwide on antique maps and globes and the history of cartography. By Eric W. Wolf.
 
BOOK/ MAP REVIEWS
“Rhumb Lines and Map Wars” (Reviewer: Waldo Tobler)
“Maps, Myths and Men: The Story of the Vinland Map” (Reviewer: Bill Warren)
“Atlas of Palestine” (Reviewer: Bill Stanley)
 
SHORTER ITEMS
1. Washington Map Society Meetings, September 2005 – January 2006
2. Exhibitions and Meetings
3. Letters to the Editor
4. 2006 Ristow Prize Competition
5. ‘John Garver, a remembrance’, by Bob Rhodes
6. ‘The Future of the Washington Map Society’, by Bronson Percival
7.  ‘WMS Business Meeting of March 17, 2005’, by Steve Vogel
8.  ‘The Voorhees Lecture Series’, by Steve Vogel
9.  ‘WMS Saturday Seminars Continue to Capture Interest’, by Ray Wolf
10.  ‘Eleanor Abbey – A Charter Member’s Memories’, by Bill Stanley
11.  Spotlight on the WMS Membership - Kit Goodwin, Jay Lester, Eric Wolf
12.  Map Site Seeing: Key World Wide Web map sites
13.  Cartographic Notes, by Thomas F. Sander
 
AUTHORS OF ARTICLES AND REVIEWS IN THIS ISSUE
 
YONGTAO DU is a doctoral candidate in the history department of the University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign. His paper received honorable mention in the 2003 competition for the Ristow Prize in the History of Cartography and Map Librarianship.
THOMAS SUAREZ is a map dealer (Cosmography.com) and prolific researcher and author on the mapping of the Pacific.
JOEL KOVARSKY is owner and operator of The Prime Meridian: Antique Maps & Books.
HUBERT O. (BERT) JOHNSON is a past President of the WMS. He is a frequent contributor to “The Portolan.” 
BRONSON PERCIVAL is immediate past president of the Washington Map Society.
STEVE VOGEL is Secretary of the Washington Map Society.
BILL STANLEY, Vice President of the Washington Map Society, is the owner and operator of Cartographic Associates. He is also Chief Historian (emeritus) National Oceanic & Atmospheric Administration.
BOB RHODES, a Director of the Washington Map Society, served with John Garver at West Point.
ERIC W. WOLF, twice past President of the Washington Map Society, is an internationally recognized authority on the history of cartography. He is the immediate past president of the Society for the History of Discoveries.
WALDO TOBLER is Professor Emeritus, Geography, University of California, Santa Barbara.
BILL WARREN is past president of the California Map Society and editor of that society’s “Newsletter.”
RAY WOLF is past president and past outreach-chair of the Washington Map Society.
THOMAS F.SANDER is editor of “The Portolan.”
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Web Site for more information about the Washington Map Society is at its home page: http://www.washmap.org
A listing and index of the contents of all issues of 'The Portolan' is accessible at http://www.portolan.washmap.org
Also at this location is information on how to order and locate issues of the journal, and procedures for prospective authors.
 
Membership/Subscription Cost: Subscription cost is the same as membership, and may be commenced at any time. To U.S. and Canadian addressees, the cost is US $35.00 per year. For foreign addressees, the annual cost is US $ 35.00, to which must be added $ 6.00 for surface posting, or $ 10.00 per year for air posting of "The Portolan." Multiple year memberships are available. Payment is accepted in US dollars only. Those outside the US may use PayPal. A membership/ subscription/PayPal details form can be found at the Washington Map Society Web Site. For further information, contact John Docktor at washmap@earthlink.net
 
Current/Past Copies: Copies of 'The Portolan' beginning with issue 44 cost US$12.00 postpaid for US addressees; the cost is US$14.00 to other countries, which includes airmail posting. Payment is accepted in US dollars only. Issues 43 and earlier are available at a lower cost. A discount is given for orders of multiple issues. See http://www.portolan.washmap.org for details on ordering the current or past Portolans.
 
****************************************
Posted By:
Thomas F. Sander
Editor, 'The Portolan'
Washington Map Society
P.O. Box 10793
Burke, VA 22009-0793 USA
 
Phone: 703.426.2880      International: +1.703.426.2880
E-mail: Sanderva@erols.com
Washington Map SocietyWeb Site:  www.washmap.org
Portolan Web Site: www.portolan.washmap.org
**************************************************

excuse cross-posting

 X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2 X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2005 16:32:54 -0800 From: Dee Longenbaugh Subject: Re: [MapHist] "The Portolan" (Washington Map Society) - Issue 63 - DU on Late-Ming China; SUAREZ on mapping the Pacific; KOVARSKY on building a library of map books; JOHNSON on maps and music; PERCIVAL on the future of the WMS; VOGEL on the Voorhees Lectures; STANLEY on Eleanor Abbey; WOLF on weekend map seminars; RHODES on John Garver; three book reviews; and more. To: maphist@geog.uu.nl X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.733) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.info X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.951 required=6.31 tests=[AWL=-1.197, HTML_10_20=0.246, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Level: Thanks for sending, Tom. Glad you're still at it.
Best,
    Dee
On Sep 10, 2005, at 7:16 PM, Tom Sander wrote:

 
"The Portolan" has been published since 1984 and welcomes you to investigate and try this thrice-yearly journal with articles on maps, the history of cartography, and exploration. It is the only journal of its kind in the Americas.   Below is information on the issue just published.  See the end of this message for the link to the contents list of all back issues and an index to those issues.  The focus of the society and the journal is not solely Washington.  There is something for YOU in this journal.
 
"THE PORTOLAN": JOURNAL OF THE WASHINGTON MAP SOCIETY
ISSUE 63 (Fall 2005)
--------------------------------------------------------------
Issue 63 (Fall 2005), consisting of 80 pages, was published in August 2005 and has been sent to all subscribers and members in good standing of the Washington Map Society. Copies are available for purchase.
 
YONGTAO DU’s article on Merchant Geography in Late-Ming China received honorable mention in the 2003 competition for the Walter W. Ristow Prize for Cartographic History and Map Librarianship.  Dealer and author TOM SUAREZ describes the early mapping of the Pacific.   JOEL KOVARSKY provides an annotated bibliography of reference books that should be in any collector’s library, particularly those just getting started in the field of maps; there is a link to this article at the bottom of the WMS home page (see below).  BERT JOHNSON
reflects on map references in a piece of 15th century music.  WMS Past-President BRON PERCIVAL looks at where the Washington Map Society is today and what might be necessary as it moves into its second quarter-century.  STEVE VOGEL summarizes the first two Voorhees Lectures at the Library of Virginia.  BILL STANLEY reports on a charter member of the WMS who, in her 80’s, still has a love for maps.  BOB RHODES comments on the life of John Garver, former WMS President and National Geographic official. Three books are reviewed.  And there is more. "The Portolan" is published three times per year; issue 64 is due for release in late December 2005.
 
----------------------------------------------------------------
CONTENTS OF ISSUE 63 -  Fall 2005
 
ARTICLES
“Contesting Spatial Order: Merchant Geography in Late-Ming China”, by Yongtao Du, (2003 Ristow Competition Honorable Mention)
“Early Mapping of the Pacific”, by Thomas Suarez
“An Annotated Bibliography of Reference Books for the Beginning Antiquarian Map Collector” by Joel Kovarsky
“Missa de la Mapa Mundi - A Cartophonic Mystery”, by Bert Johnson
           
RECENT PUBLICATIONS
A regular feature in 'The Portolan,' this is a bibliographic listing of articles and books appearing worldwide on antique maps and globes and the history of cartography. By Eric W. Wolf.
 
BOOK/ MAP REVIEWS
“Rhumb Lines and Map Wars” (Reviewer: Waldo Tobler)
“Maps, Myths and Men: The Story of the Vinland Map” (Reviewer: Bill Warren)
“Atlas of Palestine” (Reviewer: Bill Stanley)
 
SHORTER ITEMS
1. Washington Map Society Meetings, September 2005 – January 2006
2. Exhibitions and Meetings
3. Letters to the Editor
4. 2006 Ristow Prize Competition
5. ‘John Garver, a remembrance’, by Bob Rhodes
6. ‘The Future of the Washington Map Society’, by Bronson Percival
7.  ‘WMS Business Meeting of March 17, 2005’, by Steve Vogel
8.  ‘The Voorhees Lecture Series’, by Steve Vogel
9.  ‘WMS Saturday Seminars Continue to Capture Interest’, by Ray Wolf
10.  ‘Eleanor Abbey – A Charter Member’s Memories’, by Bill Stanley
11.  Spotlight on the WMS Membership - Kit Goodwin, Jay Lester, Eric Wolf
12.  Map Site Seeing: Key World Wide Web map sites
13.  Cartographic Notes, by Thomas F. Sander
 
AUTHORS OF ARTICLES AND REVIEWS IN THIS ISSUE
 
YONGTAO DU is a doctoral candidate in the history department of the University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign. His paper received honorable mention in the 2003 competition for the Ristow Prize in the History of Cartography and Map Librarianship.
THOMAS SUAREZ is a map dealer (Cosmography.com) and prolific researcher and author on the mapping of the Pacific.
JOEL KOVARSKY is owner and operator of The Prime Meridian: Antique Maps & Books.
HUBERT O. (BERT) JOHNSON is a past President of the WMS. He is a frequent contributor to “The Portolan.” 
BRONSON PERCIVAL is immediate past president of the Washington Map Society.
STEVE VOGEL is Secretary of the Washington Map Society.
BILL STANLEY, Vice President of the Washington Map Society, is the owner and operator of Cartographic Associates. He is also Chief Historian (emeritus) National Oceanic & Atmospheric Administration.
BOB RHODES, a Director of the Washington Map Society, served with John Garver at West Point.
ERIC W. WOLF, twice past President of the Washington Map Society, is an internationally recognized authority on the history of cartography. He is the immediate past president of the Society for the History of Discoveries.
WALDO TOBLER is Professor Emeritus, Geography, University of California, Santa Barbara.
BILL WARREN is past president of the California Map Society and editor of that society’s “Newsletter.”
RAY WOLF is past president and past outreach-chair of the Washington Map Society.
THOMAS F.SANDER is editor of “The Portolan.”
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Web Site for more information about the Washington Map Society is at its home page: http://www.washmap.org
A listing and index of the contents of all issues of 'The Portolan' is accessible at http://www.portolan.washmap.org
Also at this location is information on how to order and locate issues of the journal, and procedures for prospective authors.
 
Membership/Subscription Cost: Subscription cost is the same as membership, and may be commenced at any time. To U.S. and Canadian addressees, the cost is US $35.00 per year. For foreign addressees, the annual cost is US $ 35.00, to which must be added $ 6.00 for surface posting, or $ 10.00 per year for air posting of "The Portolan." Multiple year memberships are available. Payment is accepted in US dollars only. Those outside the US may use PayPal. A membership/ subscription/PayPal details form can be found at the Washington Map Society Web Site. For further information, contact John Docktor at washmap@earthlink.net
 
Current/Past Copies: Copies of 'The Portolan' beginning with issue 44 cost US$12.00 postpaid for US addressees; the cost is US$14.00 to other countries, which includes airmail posting. Payment is accepted in US dollars only. Issues 43 and earlier are available at a lower cost. A discount is given for orders of multiple issues. See http://www.portolan.washmap.org for details on ordering the current or past Portolans.
 
****************************************
Posted By:
Thomas F. Sander
Editor, 'The Portolan'
Washington Map Society
P.O. Box 10793
Burke, VA 22009-0793 USA
 
Phone: 703.426.2880      International: +1.703.426.2880
E-mail: Sanderva@erols.com
Washington Map SocietyWeb Site:  www.washmap.org
Portolan Web Site: www.portolan.washmap.org
**************************************************

excuse cross-posting

Dee Longenbaugh
The Observatory, ABAA
www.observatorybooks.com
907/586-9676
200 North Franklin Street
Juneau, Alaska, 99801
Since 1977
The bridge of life is sometimes found in the rainbow

 X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2 X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl X-IronPort-AV: i="3.97,97,1125892800"; d="scan'208"; a="80504075:sNHT18421760" X-Sender: sanderva@pop.erols.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.0.1.1 Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2005 20:48:51 -0400 To: maphist@geog.uu.nl From: Tom Sander Subject: Re: [MapHist] "The Portolan" (Washington Map Society) - Issue 63 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.info X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.533 required=6.31 tests=[AWL=-0.533] X-Spam-Level: Dee, thanks. Still at it, and the only publication of its kind in the Americas. Tom At 08:32 PM 9/11/2005, you wrote: >Thanks for sending, Tom. Glad you're still at it. >Best, > Dee _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.info X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2 X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Subject: RE: [MapHist] Thefts: the international dimension Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2005 09:36:51 +0100 X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [MapHist] Thefts: the international dimension Thread-Index: AcW2bcldPhC+VLcZSFK27Wqd5Y6JbABBpl6g From: "Francis Herbert" To: X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.info X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.007 required=6.31 tests=[AWL=-1.007] X-Spam-Level: Not only The British Library in London, The National Archives (PRO) in Kew, but also this Society prohibits anything but transparent (temporary) bags into our Foyle Reading Room (opened to all Tuesday 8 June 2004). Furthermore - stealing the idea from TNA - I have seen that our storage lockers, when installed, were transparent, too, in order that nothing is left overnight. And pencils only to be used; but, in case you're all thinking we're still stuck in the Livingstone era, laptops are welcome. Francis Herbert (Curator of Maps) f.herbert@rgs.org http://www.rgs.org [see 'Collections' - including some online catalogues (e.g., many maps up to ca 1940)] http://images.rgs.org -----Original Message----- From: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl [mailto:owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl] On Behalf Of Dee Longenbaugh Sent: 11 September 2005 02:11 To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Subject: Re: [MapHist] Thefts: the international dimension This has been a most interesting discussion, but I must point out Smiley was carrying not only an Exacto blade but a briefcase when arrested. I agree wholeheartedly with John Docktor as to the simple precautions that I would expect deter most, if not all, would-be thieves. The British Library is an excellent example - they provide lockers for coats, purses, and bags. Pencils only allowed in the library and a check of notes, etc. made when leaving. I can't imagine that more than a few people using libraries of any sort have a felonious intent. It would be horrific if that handful should deny researchers from enjoying the purpose of libraries - to share knowledge. Dee Longenbaugh On Sep 10, 2005, at 4:45 PM, John W. Docktor wrote: > I have been reading the messages on this topic with a large amount > of interest, and I would like to give my experience in this matter. > I am a collector who has been able to visit many cartographic > libraries throughout the world, and I have been able to examine > their rare maps and atlases. I have found security to range from > almost non-existent to excellent. The best security in my mind is > in those libraries which have lockers in the entrance foyer. I was > informed that I could take nothing into the library except a > pencil, 3-4 sheets of note paper, and a laptop computer. No bags, > no pocketbooks, no coats. Sport jackets or suit jackets had to be > removed. Some libraries allowed me to take a camera into the > reading room. However, I was only allowed to bring in the camera > which was on a strap around my neck - no camera bag. On exiting the > library, my 3-4 sheets of note paper and laptop computer were > examined by security. > > I strongly suggest that libraries not allow anything inside the > reading rooms except for a pencil, a few sheets of note paper, > laptop computer, and perhaps a camera. Libraries will have to spend > money in order to construct adequate locker space for the users. > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > --------------------------- > John W. Docktor > Phone: 772-466-8706 > Dee Longenbaugh The Observatory, ABAA www.observatorybooks.com deelong@alaska.com 907/586-9676 200 North Franklin Street Juneau, Alaska, 99801 Since 1977 The bridge of life is sometimes found in the rainbow _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.info _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.info X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2 X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl From: "J. B. Post" To: Subject: [MapHist] "Leaf" books Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2005 12:03:50 -0400 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.info X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.596 required=6.31 tests=[AWL=-0.684, HTML_50_60=0.087, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001] X-Spam-Level:
   This year's Oak Knoll [book]Fest is to be held 1-2 October in New Castle (DE, USA) and will feature talks & panels on the "leaf book."  While other works are perhaps greater victims(?) of this practice, it does dovetail with concerns of losing pages & plates from works of a mappish nature which have appeared on this list of late.  A previous local history engagement may keep me from the first day and the keynote speech, but I hope to get there for the second day. 
 
   Details at http://www.oakknoll.com . 
 
                   JBP
 
 X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2 X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2005 12:55:35 -0500 From: "Angie Cope, AGSL" User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.2 (Windows/20050317) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en To: maphist@geog.uu.nl, CARTA-L@geog.uu.nl:Canadian Map & GIS Libraries and Archives , amcircle@yahoogroups.com Subject: [MapHist] American Geographical Society Library Fellowships for 2006 X-Virus-Scanned: by clamav X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.52 on 129.89.7.50 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.info X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.133 required=6.31 tests=[AWL=-1.133] X-Spam-Level: Appologies for cross posting. Please forward to faculty and researchers. REMINDER: American Geographical Society Library Fellowships for 2006 The American Geographical Society Library, University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee Libraries, welcomes applications for two short-term fellowship programs: McColl Research Program fellowships. This is a new short-term fellowship program available to individuals who wish to communicate their geographical research results to a broad, educated general audience. Awards of $3000 for four-week fellowships will be provided to support residencies for the purpose of conducting research that makes direct use of the Library, and results in publication in a mutually agreed outlet. Helen and John S. Best Research Fellowships. Stipends of $375 per week, for periods up to 4 weeks, will be awarded to support residencies for the purpose of conducting research that makes direct use of the Library. The AGS Library, the former research library and map collection of the American Geographical Society of New York, has strengths in geography, cartography and related historical topics. Applications must be received by October 21, 2005. All fellowships are tenable in 2006. For further information, write, call or e-mail the AGS Library, P.O. Box 399, Milwaukee, WI 53201-0399, Tel. (414) 229-6282, E-mail agsl@uwm.edu. Web site: http://www.uwm.edu/Libraries/AGSL/fellowships.html Message forwarded by: ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ANGIE COPE American Geographical Society Library 2311 E. Hartford Avenue Milwaukee, Wisconsin 53201 http://www.uwm.edu/Libraries/AGSL/index.html Hours: M-F 8:00am-4:30pm acope@uwm.edu (414) 229-6282 (800) 558-8993 (US TOLL FREE) (414) 229-3624 (FAX) Map Librarian, MAPS-L Moderator http://www.uwm.edu/Libraries/AGSL/welcome_to_mapsl%20forum.html ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.info X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2 X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/9.0.4.4011 Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2005 14:24:56 -0400 Subject: Re: [MapHist] Colton's atlas 1858 help identify an engravings meaning From: Helen Glazer To: Maphist X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.info X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.264 required=6.31 tests=[AWL=-0.745, INFO_TLD=0.481] X-Spam-Level: We've seen other prints with female personifications of "Geography" or "Geometry," gathered around a globe with other tools such as compasses and navigational instruments, from the 18th century and earlier. They frequently have landscape backgrounds, e.g. the sea as a reference to maritime navigation. We're guessing that it's just an artistic convention, perhaps updated by Colton's engravers to put the women in Victorian garb as opposed to Classical. See, for example this print from 1807: http://www.georgeglazer.com/prints/genre/corbould.html --Helen ø ø ø ø ø ø ø ø ø ø ø ø ø ø ø ø ø Helen Glazer, Creative Director George Glazer Gallery http://www.georgeglazer.com Antique Globes, Maps & Prints ø ø ø ø ø ø ø ø ø ø ø ø ø ø ø ø ø On 9/9/05 2:17 PM, "Angie Cope, AGSL" wrote: > Hello all, > > I'm hoping someone is familiar with Colton atlases. I'm wondering if the > image found as a front plate of the 1868 "Colton's general atlas" has > any allegorical or symbolic meaning. > > I've posted the image here: > http://www.uwm.edu/~acope/index.html > > Thanks in advance for your comments and ideas. _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.info X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2 X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl From: "Rodney Shirley" To: Subject: Re: [MapHist] Colton's atlas 1858 help identify an engravings meaning Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2005 22:15:28 +0100 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.info X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.958 required=6.31 tests=[AWL=-0.958] X-Spam-Level: Decorative engraved frontispieces very often have symbolic (and specific) meanings but sometimes their meaning is generalised. I think the latter applies to the Colton atlas referred to--but whereas Angie Cope says '1868 atlas' Tom Ikins in his subject heading talks about Colton's 1858 atlas. Which is it--or both? I myself have a Colton 1860 atlas in front of me and I suggest that the frontispiece with the four female figures or muses around a globe exemplifies the coming together of the sciences or arts of Navigation, Astronomy and Geography in Colton's atlas for the benefit of the seated figure on the left who may well personify Culture or Learning generally. The designer-artist was F A Chapman. Colton's 1855 (and later?) Atlas of the World has a different frontispiece. This shows a group of native Indians on a rocky outcrop looking in bemusement at the advancing white civilisation across the plains below. A township, smoking factory chimneys, a river paddle-steamer and a steam train threaten their world. There is a need for a more rational analysis of the decorative engraved titlepages and frontispieces that preface many atlases from the 1500s onwards. They sometimes reflect the mind of the author or map-maker; sometimes they are seeking to attract the perceived audience(s) of purchasers. It's a complex field and I'm gathering material for a book or booklet on this topic; perhaps for publication in a year or two. Any suggestions as to relevant source material will be appreciated. Rodney Shirley rodneyws@dial.pipex.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Angie Cope, AGSL" To: Sent: 09 September 2005 19:17 Subject: [MapHist] Colton's atlas 1858 help identify an engravings meaning > Hello all, > > I'm hoping someone is familiar with Colton atlases. I'm wondering if > the image found as a front plate of the 1868 "Colton's general > atlas" has any allegorical or symbolic meaning. > > I've posted the image here: > http://www.uwm.edu/~acope/index.html > > Thanks in advance for your comments and ideas. > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > ANGIE COPE > American Geographical Society Library > UW Milwaukee > 2311 E. Hartford Avenue > Milwaukee, Wisconsin 53201 > > http://www.uwm.edu/Libraries/AGSL/index.html > Hours: M-F 8:00am-4:30pm > acope@uwm.edu > (414) 229-6282 > (800) 558-8993 (US TOLL FREE) > (414) 229-3624 (FAX) > > Map Librarian, MAPS-L Moderator > http://www.uwm.edu/Libraries/AGSL/welcome_to_mapsl%20forum.html > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > _______________________________________________________________ > MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography > hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht. > The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of > the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of > Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility > for > the views of the author. > List Information: http://www.maphist.info > _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.info X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2 X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition; b=PG22G9xL6dH0eFPAbdtlfN7ppvJs9cCM2qSOtovQH1YlxOJejIBFnvUuk8u1n9bZxwOUro1eo8iSkttRtHLezTVdwMeUq1xHfUvDLVF4SigSfWZH9+lxi5nN7CZEeSGaPnIPVQQl0OHskfXwqd1Y+63DS9VAFBuNN/3j9TifTwc= Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2005 17:28:59 -0400 From: Jonathan Crowe To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Subject: [MapHist] The Map Room outage X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.info X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.066 required=6.31 tests=[AWL=-0.001, RCVD_BY_IP=0.067, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Level: My web hosting provider has been knocked offline by the power outage that has hit Los Angeles for the last hour and a half or so. The Map Room is unavailable at the moment as a result. Just FYI. Jonathan Crowe The Map Room: A Weblog About Maps http://www.mcwetboy.net/maproom/ _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.info X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2 X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition; b=G7Qbqyw1BRcTfw4yke9VO+8dNl1Xk1dAZBz2cFzyoVgFuhwlvNAgqMMnNLhAvAaSOp1H4TWs8H3rYXr7cvG/x5A7g6d1JAy/6cYu+HOgxcHI60Jjh/j5wlGPtf/G6Ja47gFC8nv0mNe+3BnsEdGx86sjeyrUC9Z8L2ZnNd5D+74= Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2005 21:03:52 -0400 From: Jonathan Crowe To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Subject: [MapHist] Map thefts: British library X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.info X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.066 required=6.31 tests=[AWL=-0.000, RCVD_BY_IP=0.067, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Level: Three maps dating from the 16th and early 17th centuries have been stolen from the British Library, the Independent reports in tomorrow's edition: http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/crime/article312214.ece Jonathan Crowe The Map Room: A Weblog About Maps http://www.mcwetboy.net/maproom/ _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.info X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2 X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=YSp8S9VKOwlJ7b8saTPYyNUFGl3M+t9bWhMGL418m/STiPhUcWGXIkY9nK6lHFro; h=Received:Message-ID:From:To:References:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Priority:X-MSMail-Priority:X-Mailer:X-MimeOLE:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; From: "Dorothy Sloan" To: Subject: [MapHist] Historic New Orleans Collection o.k. Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 18:24:36 -0500 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-ELNK-Trace: f33403415f50180b84b095f4ad0a658b3394c2b657dba48e74bf435c0eb9d478fed25d3098752d29670f6eda18b0968f10fd645ec294c5e7350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 67.142.83.101 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.info X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.246 required=6.31 tests=[AWL=-0.727, INFO_TLD=0.481] X-Spam-Level: http://www.hnoc.org/ Unable to find information on Tulane. Dorothy Sloan www.dsloan.com _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.info X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2 X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl From: "Ed Bradford" To: Subject: Re: [MapHist] Historic New Orleans Collection o.k. Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 21:32:14 -0400 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.info X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.542 required=6.31 tests=[AWL=0.432, INFO_TLD=0.481, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_SBL=0.629] X-Spam-Level: * See: http://www.tulane.edu/audio/september12.html Ed ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dorothy Sloan" To: Sent: Tuesday, September 13, 2005 7:24 PM Subject: [MapHist] Historic New Orleans Collection o.k. > http://www.hnoc.org/ > > Unable to find information on Tulane. > > Dorothy Sloan > www.dsloan.com > > > _______________________________________________________________ > MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography > hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht. > The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of > the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of > Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for > the views of the author. > List Information: http://www.maphist.info _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.info X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2 X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl X-Greylist: delayed 00:06:50 by SQLgrey-1.6.5 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=Rj2DBvpGhmtswc2HHuBPFE6lMWGUTnSZgdRTm18GHj/hyxnhxPeaavMlASvaBk7NK32FjwIy91eT5hHXuUJqPqqUaPz/Yz4UmWkTF+G1UqaxHWIQsNFkdrzKrda3A8XzjqQPBeTp956b+enZWqyenCzKeW+qxMBfoJjDFaguoy8= Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 08:23:25 -0400 From: Jonathan Crowe To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Subject: [MapHist] Re: Map thefts: British library X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.info X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.28 required=6.31 tests=[AWL=-0.224, INFO_TLD=0.481, RCVD_BY_IP=0.024, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Level: The Montreal Gazette, focusing on the stolen Frobisher map and its significance to Canadian history, fingers Forbes Smiley as a potential suspect: "The FBI then issued an alert to map libraries around the world, advising curators to check their collections and determine whether the accused had recently visited their institutions. "That's when the British Library first noticed the missing Frobisher map and the two other apparent thefts. Peter Barber, head of the library's cartography section, recently told the Hartford Courant that records show Smiley visited the library twice in the past 18 months and examined at least two of the books." http://www.canada.com/montreal/montrealgazette/news/story.html?id=320d5f9c-55f1-4137-9c40-79503dfda4f9&page=1 (The above link should be all on one line; you may have to reconstruct it manually if your e-mail program breaks it into two lines but makes only the first line active as a link.) Jonathan Crowe The Map Room: A Weblog About Maps http://www.mcwetboy.net/maproom/ On 9/12/05, Jonathan Crowe wrote: > Three maps dating from the 16th and early 17th centuries have been > stolen from the British Library, the Independent reports in tomorrow's > edition: > > http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/crime/article312214.ece _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.info X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2 X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl X-Greylist: delayed 00:18:32 by SQLgrey-1.6.5 From: Daniel Strebe Subject: [MapHist] Fwd: ICA-WG Digital Technologies in Cartographic Heritage Date: Sat, 17 Sep 2005 01:00:56 -0700 To: maphist@geog.uu.nl X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.734) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.info X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.274 required=6.31 tests=[AWL=-0.257, FORGED_RCVD_HELO=0.05, INFO_TLD=0.481] X-Spam-Level: Probably of interest to many in the group. Begin forwarded message: > From: "Evangelos Livieratos" > Date: September 15, 2005 11:23:53 PM PDT > > Dear Colleague, > > During the XXII International Cartographic Conference held in A > Coruña, Spain, in July 2005, the ICA Executive Commitee accepted > the proposal for the creation of a new Working Group on Digital > Technologies in Cartographic Heritage, recognizing the rapid > introduction of new digital technologies into a manifold of issues > related to history of cartography and cartographic heritage in the > large. > > A first list of terms of reference, include the following items: > Transformation into digital of old maps, globes and cartographic > documents. > Applications of digital techniques in the cartographic study of old > maps. > Digital tools assisting the work of map curators and the > functionality of map libraries networking and access to > cartographic heritage. > Digital support for the preservation and restoration of old maps, > atlases and globes. > ICTs in teaching and diffusing to the public history of cartography > and maps. > The WG's web site is now ready in the address > > http://www.maplibrary.gr/ica_heritage > > with the application form inviting memberships of persons working > on the field or interested to join the work of the WG. The ICA > national delegations and affiliate members are also invited to > propose potential candidates to join the WG. > > Please be so kind to circulate this announcement to any person you > think appropriate. > > Thanking you in advance for your cooperation and support, > > Sincerely yours, > > Evangelos Livieratos > > ----------------------------------------------------- > Prof. Evangelos Livieratos, > Department of Cadastre, Photogrammetry and Cartography, > Faculty of Surveying Engineering, > Aristotle University of Thessaloniki. > President of the National Centre for Maps & Cartographic Heritage > Dim. Poliorkitou 37 > GRE-546 33 Thessaloniki, Greece > e-mails: livier@auth.gr / livier@maplibrary.gr > > _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.info X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2 X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl X-Greylist: delayed 00:28:13 by SQLgrey-1.6.5 From: "Dr. Hanno V. J. KOLBE" To: Subject: [MapHist] Digital Technologies in Cartographic Heritage Date: Sat, 17 Sep 2005 10:51:29 +0200 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-AV-Checked: clean on smtp.evc.net X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.info X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.398 required=6.31 tests=[AWL=-0.879, INFO_TLD=0.481] X-Spam-Level: Dear Daniel, thank you for this information. Some French communities have placed their (old) birth/marriage/death records in form of digital picture files on the internet. This saves work of office personal ("Could you pleeease search for me Jean Dupont, who was maybe born between 1812 and 1831 ??!!??") and this saves the records themselves (resting peacefully on their shelves in LOCKED rooms). For maps (concernig map theft, usage etc.) it would make sense to proceed in the same way (why not a little fee to compensate for the digitalization work...?): The originals are documented ("...forever...") ... and then stored in a well controlled place for future generations, and the DigiVersions can be consulted by everybody and his friend. Sincerely H.V.J.Kolbe Alsace/France/Old Europe ----- Original Message ----- From: "Daniel Strebe" To: Sent: Saturday, September 17, 2005 10:00 AM Subject: [MapHist] Fwd: ICA-WG Digital Technologies in Cartographic Heritage Probably of interest to many in the group. Begin forwarded message: > From: "Evangelos Livieratos" > Date: September 15, 2005 11:23:53 PM PDT > > Dear Colleague, > > During the XXII International Cartographic Conference held in A Coruña, > Spain, in July 2005, the ICA Executive Commitee accepted the proposal for > the creation of a new Working Group on Digital Technologies in > Cartographic Heritage, recognizing the rapid introduction of new digital > technologies into a manifold of issues related to history of cartography > and cartographic heritage in the large. > > A first list of terms of reference, include the following items: > Transformation into digital of old maps, globes and cartographic > documents. > Applications of digital techniques in the cartographic study of old maps. > Digital tools assisting the work of map curators and the functionality of > map libraries networking and access to cartographic heritage. > Digital support for the preservation and restoration of old maps, atlases > and globes. > ICTs in teaching and diffusing to the public history of cartography and > maps. > The WG's web site is now ready in the address > > http://www.maplibrary.gr/ica_heritage > > with the application form inviting memberships of persons working on the > field or interested to join the work of the WG. The ICA national > delegations and affiliate members are also invited to propose potential > candidates to join the WG. > > Please be so kind to circulate this announcement to any person you think > appropriate. > > Thanking you in advance for your cooperation and support, > > Sincerely yours, > > Evangelos Livieratos > > ----------------------------------------------------- > Prof. Evangelos Livieratos, > Department of Cadastre, Photogrammetry and Cartography, > Faculty of Surveying Engineering, > Aristotle University of Thessaloniki. > President of the National Centre for Maps & Cartographic Heritage > Dim. Poliorkitou 37 > GRE-546 33 Thessaloniki, Greece > e-mails: livier@auth.gr / livier@maplibrary.gr > > _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.info _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.info X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2 X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl X-Greylist: domain auto-whitelisted by SQLgrey-1.6.5 From: overlee@verizon.net To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Subject: [MapHist] NYTimes.com: Mapping Everything From Eden to the New York Subway X-Originating-IP: [70.109.242.136] X-Initiated-By: [nytimes.com website user] Date: Sat, 17 Sep 2005 14:53:50 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.info X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.578 required=6.31 tests=[AWL=1.608, HTML_FONT_BIG=0.232, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MSGID_FROM_MTA_ID=1.704, NO_REAL_NAME=0.178, RCVD_IN_BSP_TRUSTED=-4.3, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Level: E-Mail This
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Worth a visit to New York---and congratulations to Alice. Martin Torodash

ARTS / ART & DESIGN   | September 15, 2005
Exhibition Review | 'Treasured Maps':  Mapping Everything From Eden to the New York Subway
By EDWARD ROTHSTEIN
"Treasured Maps" samples the New York Public Library's extraordinary collection of 400,000 maps and 20,000 atlases.


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X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2 X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl X-Greylist: delayed 00:30:27 by SQLgrey-1.6.5 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.3.4 Date: Sat, 17 Sep 2005 16:59:05 +0200 To: maphist@geog.uu.nl From: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl (by way of List-owner MapHist ) Subject: [MapHist] Harley Map Fellowships announced X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.info X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.548 required=6.31 tests=[AWL=-1.079, FORGED_RCVD_HELO=0.05, INFO_TLD=0.481] X-Spam-Level: Non-member submission from ["Mitchell, Rose" ] Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2005 16:37:20 +0100 [Please excuse duplication for wide posting. Conver= sely, please pass on to others who might be interested] **************************************** The J.B. Harley Research Fellowships in the Hi= story of Cartography **************************************** The Harley Fellowships - the only one of their kind in Europe - provide support of up to four weeks (normally at GBP 300 per week) for those, from any discipline, doing the equivalent of post-graduate level work in the historical map collections of the London area. Web site: <3D.htm>http://www.maphistory.info/harley.html The closing date for applications is NOVEM= BER 1st. The Fellowship website includes an Application page that should provide all the necessary information as well as answering many frequently asked questions: < <3D.htm>http://w= ww.maphistory.info/application.html >= ;. It would be helpful if you could say where you saw = this notice. ****************************************** Email: rose.mitchell@nationalarchives.gov.uk Rose Mitchell Hon. Sec. J.B. Harley Fellowships Map, Plans and Drawings Team Research, Knowledge and Academic Services Department The National Archives Richmond, Surrey TW9 4DU, UK *****************************= ************ ---------------------= --------------------------------------------------------------- Just = published - The Genealogist's Internet (3rd edition) http:= //www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/bookshop/title_show.asp?title_id=3D212= ---------------------= --------------------------------------------------------------- National Archives Dis= claimer This e-mail message (= and attachments) may contain information that is confidential to The Natio= nal Archives. If you are not the intended recipient you cannot use, distri= bute or copy the message or attachments. In such a case, please notify the= sender by return e-mail immediately and erase all copies of the message an= d attachments. Opinions, conclusions and other information in this message= and attachments that do not relate to the official business of The Nationa= l Archives are neither given nor endorsed by it. ---------------------= --------------------------------------------------------------- ------_=_NextPart_001_01C5BA0B.5C80E502-- Peter van der Krogt List-owner MapHist List-info: http://www.maphist.nl _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.info X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2 X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl X-Greylist: domain auto-whitelisted by SQLgrey-1.6.5 From: "Gilbert Deraedt" To: "Maphist" Subject: [MapHist] Atlas Calenberg Date: Sun, 18 Sep 2005 15:21:03 +0200 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: by XS4ALL Virus Scanner X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.info X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.429 required=6.31 tests=[AWL=-0.430, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001] X-Spam-Level:
The last issue of ' Caert Thresoor ' comprised an article on the ' Atlas Calenberg ' . I am looking for more information on this ' factice ' atlas.
 
Thanks,
Gilbert Deraedt
 X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2 X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl X-Greylist: delayed 00:31:05 by SQLgrey-1.6.5 From: "tony campbell" To: "*MapHist" Subject: [MapHist] re: New York Public Library 'Treasured Maps' exhibition Date: Sun, 18 Sep 2005 18:08:02 +0100 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.info X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.837 required=6.31 tests=[AWL=-1.318, INFO_TLD=0.481] X-Spam-Level: Unless it got lost crossing the Atlantic, Martin Torodash's alert to the New York Times coverage of Alice Hudson's new exhibition did not include the URL: http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/15/arts/design/15maps.html There is also a brief note about the exhibit on the New York Public Library site at < http://www.nypl.org/research/calendar/exhib/hssl/hsslexhibdesc.cfm?id=384 >, giving the full title of the exhibition 'Treasured Maps: Celebrating The Lionel Pincus and Princess Firyal Map Division', and the dates: September 9, 2005 through April 9, 2006. There is also a press release at < http://www.nypl.org/press/tmaps.cfm >. Alice, what with organising this exhibit and preparing the related talk, you must have been extremely busy! If, as has happened with past NYPL exhibits, more material is put up on the web I am sure you will let MapHist know. Congratulations on the good publicity. Tony Campbell ****************************************** t.campbell@ockendon.clara.co.uk 'Map History / History of Cartography: THE Gateway to the Subject' http://www.maphistory.info/ [part of the WWW-Virtual Library] ****************************************** -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.10.24/101 - Release Date: 13/09/2005 _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.info X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2 X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl X-Greylist: delayed 01:10:59 by SQLgrey-1.6.5 Subject: RE: [MapHist] Small map publishers Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 10:25:23 +1000 X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [MapHist] Small map publishers Thread-Index: AcW8sBzmWakacvzfRmmWnf9vjuTpoAAACMVg From: "Maura O'Connor" To: X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.info X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.907 required=6.31 tests=[AWL=-1.003, HTML_50_60=0.095, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001] X-Spam-Level: Message
Dear Jonathan
That is what map cataloguing is about! I have a small team of map cataloguers to whom I fooward such material when it is received in the Library.  When I had a staff position part of their duties was to seek such material from government, commercial and private publishers who are required by law to deposit their material with the library.  Sadly that position has all but been abolished and we are not able to do follow -up work at present.
Yours sincerely
Maura O'Connor

Map Curator
National Library of Australia
Canberra  ACT  2600
Phone : 61 2 6262 1280
Fax: 61 2 6262 1653
Email : moconnor@nla.gov.au

 
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl [mailto:owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl] On Behalf Of J. B. Post
Sent: Monday, 19 September 2005 10:29 AM
To: maphist@geog.uu.nl
Subject: [MapHist] Small map publishers

   My township (Tredyffrin) has sent around a township map with township information (libraries, emergency numbers, history, etc.) as well as ads.  It was produced by Municipal Publications, Inc. (http://www.municipalpublications.org) which produces such maps for smaller governmental bodies in Pennsylvania & Ohio.  There are probably similar publishers all over the US - and perhaps counterparts in other parts of the world.  Compiling even brief lists of such maps is probably going to require more effort than can be spared from more important projects, but perhaps a list of such publishers might be fitted in.  There is a copyright notice on the map and one assumes a copy was delivered unto the Library of Congress.  An additional problem is these producers may not be the distributors, that function being reserved to the governmental agencies commissioning the maps. 
 
                      JBP
 
 X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2 X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl X-Greylist: delayed 00:06:39 by SQLgrey-1.6.5 From: "J. B. Post" To: Subject: [MapHist] Small map publishers Date: Sun, 18 Sep 2005 20:29:20 -0400 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.info X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.931 required=6.31 tests=[AWL=-1.018, HTML_40_50=0.086, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001] X-Spam-Level:
   My township (Tredyffrin) has sent around a township map with township information (libraries, emergency numbers, history, etc.) as well as ads.  It was produced by Municipal Publications, Inc. (http://www.municipalpublications.org) which produces such maps for smaller governmental bodies in Pennsylvania & Ohio.  There are probably similar publishers all over the US - and perhaps counterparts in other parts of the world.  Compiling even brief lists of such maps is probably going to require more effort than can be spared from more important projects, but perhaps a list of such publishers might be fitted in.  There is a copyright notice on the map and one assumes a copy was delivered unto the Library of Congress.  An additional problem is these producers may not be the distributors, that function being reserved to the governmental agencies commissioning the maps. 
 
                      JBP
 
 X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2 X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl X-Greylist: delayed 00:26:22 by SQLgrey-1.6.5 Subject: Re: [MapHist] Re: Map thefts: British library To: maphist@geog.uu.nl X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Release 6.5.3 September 14, 2004 From: hd@kb.dk Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 10:52:31 +0200 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on Notes00/Kglbib(Release 6.5.2|June 01, 2004) at 19-09-2005 10:52:32, Itemize by SMTP Server on Notes02/Kglbib(Release 6.5.2|June 01, 2004) at 19-09-2005 10:52:31, Serialize by Router on Notes02/Kglbib(Release 6.5.2|June 01, 2004) at 19-09-2005 10:52:32, Serialize complete at 19-09-2005 10:52:32 X-PMX-Version: 4.7.1.128075, Antispam-Engine: 2.0.3.0, Antispam-Data: 2005.9.19.3 X-PerlMx-Spam: Gauge=IIIIIII, Probability=7%, Report='NO_REAL_NAME 0, __CT 0, __CT_TEXT_PLAIN 0, __HAS_MSGID 0, __HAS_X_MAILER 0, __MIME_TEXT_ONLY 0, __MIME_VERSION 0, __SANE_MSGID 0' X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.info X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.467 required=6.31 tests=[AWL=-0.241, FORGED_RCVD_HELO=0.05, INFO_TLD=0.481, NO_REAL_NAME=0.178, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Level: Is there a picture of the actual stolen map from The British Library Best: World Map showing Frobishers findings ? ============================================ Forskningsbibliotekar Henrik Dupont Kort- og Billedafdelingen Det Kongelige Bibliotek +45 33474492 hd@kb.dk Nyheder fra Kort- og Billedafdelingen: http://www.kb.dk/kb/dept/nbo/kob/nyhedsbrev/index.htm ============================================ _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.info X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2 X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl X-Greylist: from auto-whitelisted by SQLgrey-1.6.5 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.3.4 Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 19:52:46 +0200 To: maphist@geog.uu.nl From: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl (by way of List-owner MapHist ) Subject: Re: [MapHist] Re: Map thefts: British library X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.info X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.502 required=6.31 tests=[AWL=-1.033, FORGED_RCVD_HELO=0.05, INFO_TLD=0.481] X-Spam-Level: Message had an illegal content type, probably html encoded. Peter Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 08:08:21 -0500 From: Robert Karrow I believe this is the map: http://www.civilization.ca/hist/frobisher/images/frmaf01b.jpg 2nd message: Sorry, if it's the world map, I guess it's this one: http://www.civilization.ca/hist/frobisher/images/fraft02b.jpg At 10:52 AM 9/19/2005 +0200, you wrote: >Is there a picture of the actual stolen map from The British Library Best: >World Map showing Frobishers findings ? > > > > > > > > ============================================ > Forskningsbibliotekar Henrik Dupont > Kort- og Billedafdelingen Det Kongelige Bibliotek > +45 33474492 hd@kb.dk > Nyheder fra Kort- og Billedafdelingen: > http://www.kb.dk/kb/dept/nbo/kob/nyhedsbrev/index.htm >============================================ Robert W. Karrow, Jr. Curator of Special Collections and Curator of Maps, Roger & Julie Baskes Department of Special Collections The Newberry Library 60 W. Walton Street Chicago, Illinois 60610-7324 Tel: 312-255-3554 FAX: 312-255-3646 E-Mail: KarrowR@newberry.org www.newberry.org For a partial catalog of our cartographic holdings, see www.biblioserver.com/newberry _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.info X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2 X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl X-Greylist: whitelisted by SQLgrey-1.6.5 From: TKashuba@aol.com Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 16:01:49 EDT Subject: [MapHist] A curious use of an old atlas... To: maphist@geog.uu.nl X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5041 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.info X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.171 required=6.31 tests=[AWL=-0.405, HTML_30_40=0.056, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, NO_REAL_NAME=0.178, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Level:
Dear List:
 
I recently came across a peculiar household tip for the use of an atlas. In Housekeeping in Old Virginia by Marion Cabell Tyree (Louisville, Kentucky: John P. Morton and Company, 1879) on page 374:
 
"To Renew Black Crape Veils.
 
Wring two large towels out of water. Then put the veil (folded across the middle, lengthways) on the lower towel; spread the other on top and roll the veil, when between, in a small tight roll.  Let it stand an hour, or till it is damp through.  Take it out and air it a little before it dries.  Fold it then in smooth squares, put it in a large book, such as an atlas, put heavy weights on it, and let it; stand an hour or two.--Mrs. M.C.C."
 
There were no household hints on how to renew the atlas after the veil treatment. 
 
Best Wishes,
 
Melinda Kashuba
Redding, California 
 X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2 X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl X-Greylist: delayed 00:57:47 by SQLgrey-1.6.5 From: "van der heijden" To: Subject: Re: [MapHist] Atlas Calenberg Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2005 11:38:38 +0200 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.info X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.001 required=6.31 tests=[HTML_MESSAGE=0.001] X-Spam-Level:
I am not able to give you more information. The proprietor of the atlas does not permit it for the time being
Henk van der Heijden
----- Original Message -----
To: Maphist
Sent: Sunday, September 18, 2005 3:21 PM
Subject: [MapHist] Atlas Calenberg

The last issue of ' Caert Thresoor ' comprised an article on the ' Atlas Calenberg ' . I am looking for more information on this ' factice ' atlas.
 
Thanks,
Gilbert Deraedt
 X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2 X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl X-Greylist: delayed 00:09:41 by SQLgrey-1.6.5 X-Sender: cobb@pop.fas.harvard.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.1.0.6 Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2005 15:40:40 -0400 To: maps-l@listserv.uga.edu, maphist@geog.uu.nl From: David Cobb Subject: [MapHist] Harvard Position X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.info X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.626 required=6.31 tests=[AWL=-1.107, INFO_TLD=0.481] X-Spam-Level: Colleagues - The Harvard College Library is seeking a cartographic materials cataloger to work in the Harvard Map Collection cataloging early American antiquarian maps. Additional information is available at the following address: http://jobs.harvard.edu/jobs/summ_req?in_post_id=27120 David Cobb *************************************************************************** David A. Cobb Tel. 617.495.2417 Harvard Map Collection FAX 617.496.0440 Harvard College Library Email: cobb@fas.harvard.edu Cambridge, MA 02138 HTTP://hcl.harvard.edu/maps ************************** VERITAS **************************************** _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.info X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2 X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl X-Greylist: delayed 00:10:26 by SQLgrey-1.6.5 Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 08:26:27 -0500 From: "Angie Cope, AGSL" User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.2 (Windows/20050317) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Subject: [MapHist] [Fwd: CFP: Historical GIS, AAG 2006] X-Virus-Scanned: by clamav X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.52 on 129.89.7.52 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.info X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.814 required=6.31 tests=[AWL=-1.295, INFO_TLD=0.481] X-Spam-Level: FYI -------- Original Message -------- Subject: CFP: Historical GIS, AAG 2006 Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2005 15:54:31 -0600 From: Sam Otterstrom Reply-To: H-Net Network for Historical Geography To: H-HISTGEOG@H-NET.MSU.EDU From: Michael T. Wheeler [mtwheels@twcny.rr.com] Date sent: 20 Sep 2005 2006 AAG HISTORICAL GEOGRAPHY SG CALL FOR PAPERS LOCATION AND DATES: Association of American Geographers Annual Meeting, March 7-11, 2006. Chicago, IL, USA SPONSOR: AAG Geographic Information Science and Historical Geography Specialty Groups. The Electronic Cultural Atlas Initiative. DESCRIPTION: Historical GIS studies the special issues arising from the application of GIS to historical problems. In particular, we study the spatial, temporal, and toponym data issues needed to convert and present the past in digital form. At last year's AAG, we had sessions studying: 1) Approaching Historical Geographic Questions through HGIS 2) Data and Design Issues in Historical GIS a) Developing National HGIS Systems b) The Place-Based Information Interface c) Technical Challenges in HGIS d) Visions and Collaborations This year, we already have sessions on 1) "Documenting, Visualizing, & Dealing with Uncertainty in Historical GIS" (organized by Mary Ruvane), 2) "GIScience and the Holocaust" (organized by Alberto Giodano, Michael Haley Goldman, and and Marc Masurovsky), 3) At least one session from the Electronic Cultural Atlas Initiative. If you have interest in these or other topics relating to the application of GIS to historical geography, please contact Mike Wheeler, who will be clustering this year's papers that do not fit into one of the above-mentioned sessions. SESSION ORGANIZERS: Paul Ell, Queen's University, Belfast, paul.ell@qub.ac.uk Ian Gregory, Queen's University, Belfast, ian.gregory@Queens-Belfast.AC.UK Mary Ruvane, University of North Carolina, mruvane@nc.rr.com Mike Wheeler, Syracuse University, mtwheele@maxwell.syr.edu DEADLINES: October 13th - deadline for organizing sessions (with PINs for participants) **** Michael T. Wheeler, Ph.D. Candidate Department of Geography, Syracuse University -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ANGIE COPE American Geographical Society Library 2311 E. Hartford Avenue Milwaukee, Wisconsin 53201 http://www.uwm.edu/Libraries/AGSL/index.html Hours: M-F 8:00am-4:30pm acope@uwm.edu (414) 229-6282 (800) 558-8993 (US TOLL FREE) (414) 229-3624 (FAX) Map Librarian, MAPS-L Moderator http://www.uwm.edu/Libraries/AGSL/welcome_to_mapsl%20forum.html ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.info X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2 X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl X-Greylist: delayed 00:17:48 by SQLgrey-1.6.5 X-Authentication-Info: The sender was authenticated as ovidiu using PLAIN at smtp.nada.kth.se Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 15:50:49 +0200 From: Ovidiu Sandor User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.2 (Windows/20050317) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Subject: [MapHist] Turning the page on Mercator X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.info X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.518 required=6.31 tests=[AWL=-0.999, INFO_TLD=0.481] X-Spam-Level: The British Library web site has a new tool for presenting rare and interesting books online. The system is called "Turning the page" and among the first 14 books is the Mercator atlas of Europe. All 14 books can be found at: http://www.bl.uk/onlinegallery/ttp/ttpbooks.html Fast internet connection is unfortunately a must. Regards, Ovidiu Sandor _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.info X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2 X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl X-Greylist: domain auto-whitelisted by SQLgrey-1.6.5 Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 12:41:39 -0400 (GMT-04:00) From: Joel Kovarsky To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Subject: Re: [MapHist] Turning the page on Mercator X-Mailer: Earthlink Zoo Mail 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.info X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.124 required=6.31 tests=[AWL=-1.189, INFO_TLD=0.481, RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=1.832] X-Spam-Level: * This is very intereting, and impressive. But besides a high speed connection, it's better if you have a minimum of 512MB RAM. The other issue, at least for me, is that the Shockwave player they request to have downloaded has the annoying trait of wanting to install a YAHOO toolbar, which is then very difficult to remove. I suppose I shouldn't gripe, but it would be nice if someone here knew how to get around the toobar issue. Joel Kovarsky -----Original Message----- From: Ovidiu Sandor Sent: Sep 22, 2005 9:50 AM To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Subject: [MapHist] Turning the page on Mercator The British Library web site has a new tool for presenting rare and interesting books online. The system is called "Turning the page" and among the first 14 books is the Mercator atlas of Europe. All 14 books can be found at: http://www.bl.uk/onlinegallery/ttp/ttpbooks.html Fast internet connection is unfortunately a must. Regards, Ovidiu Sandor _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.info _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.info X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2 X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl X-Greylist: delayed 00:05:02 by SQLgrey-1.6.5 Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 14:17:26 -0400 From: John Woram Subject: Re: [MapHist] Turning the page on Mercator To: maphist@geog.uu.nl X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.1.2 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.info X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.259 required=6.31 tests=[AWL=-0.274, FORGED_RCVD_HELO=0.05, INFO_TLD=0.481, SPF_HELO_SOFTFAIL=1.002] X-Spam-Level: * Joel Kovarsky wrote: "I suppose I shouldn't gripe, but it would be nice if someone here knew how to get around the toobar issue." FWIW, when I installed the Shockwave player, there was a checkbox for installing the Yahoo toolbar. If the box is cleared, the toolbar is not installed. If it does get installed accidentally, two uninstall methods are here: http://help.yahoo.com/help/toolbar/toolbar-08.html I think either instruction set should work without much problem, but I haven't installed the toolbar so I can't check this. John Woram _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.info X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2 X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl X-Greylist: domain auto-whitelisted by SQLgrey-1.6.5 Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 14:55:00 -0400 (GMT-04:00) From: Joel Kovarsky To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Subject: Re: [MapHist] Turning the page on Mercator X-Mailer: Earthlink Zoo Mail 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.info X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.444 required=6.31 tests=[AWL=-0.037, INFO_TLD=0.481] X-Spam-Level: Thanks John. I'm OK actually. What I should have said is that even though it looks like you have to agree to the toobar, you don't. They just make it confusing. Since these are low resolution images, it isn't worth it for a lot of research, and other people have run into other technical glitches with this, that they aren't discussing publicly. Same with the JCBL site that was announced some time ago. I'm just reluctant to get more detailed, and hope that many of these 'cute' sites improve their functionality as they go along. Joel -----Original Message----- From: John Woram Sent: Sep 22, 2005 2:17 PM To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Subject: Re: [MapHist] Turning the page on Mercator Joel Kovarsky wrote: "I suppose I shouldn't gripe, but it would be nice if someone here knew how to get around the toobar issue." FWIW, when I installed the Shockwave player, there was a checkbox for installing the Yahoo toolbar. If the box is cleared, the toolbar is not installed. If it does get installed accidentally, two uninstall methods are here: http://help.yahoo.com/help/toolbar/toolbar-08.html I think either instruction set should work without much problem, but I haven't installed the toolbar so I can't check this. John Woram _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.info _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.info X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2 X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl X-Greylist: domain auto-whitelisted by SQLgrey-1.6.5 Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 14:58:16 -0400 (GMT-04:00) From: Joel Kovarsky To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Subject: [MapHist] apologies X-Mailer: Earthlink Zoo Mail 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.info X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.446 required=6.31 tests=[AWL=-0.035, INFO_TLD=0.481] X-Spam-Level: That last comment to John Worham was supposed to be private, and I apologize. I'm working from webmail, and got a bit careless. Joel _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.info X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2 X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl X-Greylist: from auto-whitelisted by SQLgrey-1.6.5 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.3.4 Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 11:49:56 +0200 To: maphist@geog.uu.nl From: Peter van der Krogt Subject: [MapHist] Photos ICHC Budapest X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.info X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.411 required=6.31 tests=[AWL=-0.942, FORGED_RCVD_HELO=0.05, INFO_TLD=0.481] X-Spam-Level: Dear all The photos I made at the 21th International Conference on the History of Cartography in Budapest are uploade at: http://cartography.geog.uu.nl/ichc/2005.html Peter YYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY Dr Peter van der Krogt Map Historian, Explokart Research Program Faculty of Geo-sciences, University of Utrecht P.O. Box 80.115 3508 TC UTRECHT, The Netherlands e-mail: peter@vanderkrogt.net Homepage: MapHist: Genealogy: Elementymology: Columbus Monuments: YYYYYYYYYYYYYYY PER ANGUSTA AD AUGUSTA YYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.info X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2 X-Original-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl Delivered-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl X-Greylist: from auto-whitelisted by SQLgrey-1.6.5 X-Greylist: from auto-whitelisted by SQLgrey-1.6.5 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.3.4 Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 12:09:45 +0200 To: maphist@geog.uu.nl From: List-owner MapHist Subject: [MapHist] MapHist changes address and listserv program (Important list-owner message) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl Sender: owner-maphist@pop.geog.uu.nl Reply-To: maphist@geog.uu.nl List-Info: http://www.maphist.info X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at geog.uu.nl X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.372 required=6.31 tests=[AWL=-0.903, FORGED_RCVD_HELO=0.05, INFO_TLD=0.481] X-Spam-Level: Dear Maphisters (s u b scribers to the digest will get this message too) In a few hours you will get a new welcome message with a password. This is why: The computer department of the Utrecht Faculty of Geosciences is in the process of changing the listserv program. Soon, majordomo will no longer be supported. The new program is Mailman. The change will be at 15.00 hours CET. The following changes are important: Firstly, the address will change slightly: maphist@geo.uu.nl (it is now "geo" and not "geog" as before). Secondly, an advance is that the whole process of s u bscribing and u n s u bscribing is on a web page: http://mailman.geo.uu.nl/mailman/listinfo/maphist (this address will be added to the footer of each maphist-message). All present s u b scribers are automatically re s u b scribed in the new program. Each of you will get a welcome message with a PASSWORD. This password is necessary to change the options of your s u b scription. I advice you to go to your own page and familiarize with the options. You go this this page by opening http://mailman.geo.uu.nl/mailman/listinfo/maphist with your webbrowser, scroll down to "Maphist S u b s c r i b e r s", enter the e-mail address in the lower box and click on "U n s u b s c r i b e or edit options". On the new page, you need to fill in your password. Thirdly: there are again automatic archives! And, our computer person (Michel van Schaik) has even uploaded the archives since 2002. The address for the archives is on the listinfo page. (maybe it will take some time before the archives are active, be patient) A final ther advance is that in certain cases attachments can be allowed (after my approval, the attachments are sent to the list - in majordomo this was difficult, because message wich attachments bounced to me had the attachments in an unreadable code). I have to get used to the new program too, I hope you will understand that the first weeks some teething troubles can occur. Peter van der Krogt Peter van der Krogt List-owner MapHist List-info: http://www.maphist.nl _______________________________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.info